Loesch stance on full auto? - Page 2

Loesch stance on full auto?

This is a discussion on Loesch stance on full auto? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Havok Actually thatís exactly why it needs to be done. Nothing in the constitution says to throw these rights away when they ...

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Thread: Loesch stance on full auto?

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok View Post
    Actually thatís exactly why it needs to be done. Nothing in the constitution says to throw these rights away when they become unpopular. In fact, the whole point of the constitution is to protect rights that are unpopular, from the masses that want to donaway with them. People donít pay gun rights organizations to support gun control of its popular. We pay them to fight against it when itís popular.
    The problem there is that it's not clear that current regulation of full-auto firearms is a violation of the constitutional right. SCOTUS decisions to date say that the weapons protected are those in common use amongst the people, and full-auto weapons have never been, even when they were completely unregulated.

    So, the NRA would have little on which to base an argument that the regs are a violation of the Constitution. If a compelling legal case brings up that argument, that would be the place to support it. But legislative action requires popularity, and it would be a waste of resources and political capital for the NRA to push deregulation of automatic weapons. It has no chance of happening.
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  2. #17
    Senior Member Array baren's Avatar
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    Am not a fan of Polls for either side when it is used to justify pushing a State or National-level laws. The Poll cited is based only 1,019 people. 2018 (46%) or 469 people only reflects .000001% of Americans. I hate headlines that make false claims without clarification that it is base don only 1,000+ people. IMHO
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  3. #18
    VIP Member Array Havok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxwell97 View Post
    The problem there is that it's not clear that current regulation of full-auto firearms is a violation of the constitutional right. SCOTUS decisions to date say that the weapons protected are those in common use amongst the people, and full-auto weapons have never been, even when they were completely unregulated.

    So, the NRA would have little on which to base an argument that the regs are a violation of the Constitution. If a compelling legal case brings up that argument, that would be the place to support it. But legislative action requires popularity, and it would be a waste of resources and political capital for the NRA to push deregulation of automatic weapons. It has no chance of happening.
    It was made clear right when the founding fathers said the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. But for the sake of discussion, something doesnt have to be protected by the constitution to be legal. We dont need to ban everything thats not protected by a constitutional amendment. Ownership of automatic weapons is not a violation of the constitution, and thats the only thing that matters, so lets just go ahead and do away with the National Firearms Act. Maybe it wont pass, but if nothing else, we should still continue pushing for it, along with a bill to do away with every other gun law..over and over and over again.
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    Member Array TGbow's Avatar
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    If they could come up with a law that the criminals will obey...problem solved.

    The leftist politicians are easy predict. It's the so called conservatives that will turn and cave.

    Seems hardly any politician can give a direct answer to the point where you don't have to wonder where they stand.

    I know this will upset some folks, like my Dad, but even Ronald Reagan got on the gun ban wagon.

    The whole point is...all the regulation in the world will not effect the criminal mind.
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  6. #20
    VIP Member Array scottync's Avatar
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    Are we back to bashing the NRA again? Itís really getting tiresome.

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok View Post
    I personally think we should go on the offensive with full auto weapons.
    That would work if people listened to facts. Think about this, it was gangsters from Chicago and Bonnie and Clyde that game the anti gunners of the time their ammo.....
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  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottync View Post
    Are we back to bashing the NRA again?
    "Bashing" is such an emotionally-charged word...

    Personally, I believe that the public articulations of LaPierre and Loesch serve to hurt the interests of Second Amendment rights more than they help. Is that bashing?

    I also believe that the NRA's legislative efforts could be much more beneficial than they actually are.
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  9. #23
    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baren View Post
    Am not a fan of Polls for either side when it is used to justify pushing a State or National-level laws. The Poll cited is based only 1,019 people. 2018 (46%) or 469 people only reflects .000001% of Americans. I hate headlines that make false claims without clarification that it is base don only 1,000+ people. IMHO
    If they're randomly selected, 1000 people is a larger sample than needed for accurate results, regardless of the size of the population.
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  10. #24
    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok View Post
    Ownership of automatic weapons is not a violation of the constitution, and thats the only thing that matters, so lets just go ahead and do away with the National Firearms Act. Maybe it wont pass, but if nothing else, we should still continue pushing for it, along with a bill to do away with every other gun law..over and over and over again.
    It's not the only thing that matters - in a democratic republic, public opinion matters, and the public doesn't care about deregulating automatic weapons. The NRA pushing for it would accomplish nothing, besides making them look stupid.

    Personally I'd love for those restrictions to be eased, but you can't take the politics out of politics. Public support just isn't there.
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    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    All things equal, that may be so. Draw 1000 people from Texas, though, and you're going to get a much different opinion of the danger of rattlesnakes, than if you draw 1000 from Hawaii. Elections are much more accurate than polls...showing the number of people who feel strongly enough about the subject in question to get off their butts, put down the remotes, and go vote. Polls are like pipe cleaners, you can make almost anything from them.
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    VIP Member Array scottync's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Personally, I believe that the public articulations of LaPierre and Loesch serve to hurt the interests of Second Amendment rights more than they help. Is that bashing?
    Iím not disagreeing with you Mike. We all want more from the NRA. Iíd rather work to make it better as I know you are.

    In my mind, one cant trash the NRA while building up other gun organizations without expecting NRA members to fire back. Iím fine with supporting other organizations but Iím hearing the same kind of sniping that Ive heard in closed threads.
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  13. #27
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    Depending on whose statistics you believe, somewhere between 30 and 40 percent of U.S. households have guns. That means there are a lot of people in this country who don't own guns but are supportive of gun ownership or at least ambivalent about it. If you'd like to drive those folks to the anti-gun side, pushing for full-auto legalization would be a great place to start. The commercials would write themselves.
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  14. #28
    Distinguished Member Array BMcPhe44's Avatar
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    I hope and pray Shultz runs as an Independent, but he wonít. One thing that people on the left side of the isle understand, 3rd parties that lean their direction elect candidates that lean in the opposite direction. The left is already planning a boycott of Starbucks if Shultz were to continue. They know how to handle these threats to their social agendas.

    We can start a 3rd party and call it the Pro2 Party with a mission we (RTKAB supporters) could all get behind, and run the party on a platform that does away with all firearm infringement laws passed over the last 85 years. The party would be lucky to get 20% of the vote and would do nothing to further our rights, and according to many who study voting trends would increase overall voter resistance to any rollback of gun infringement laws currently on the books.

    Party direction is determined in the primaries and if we canít elect candidates in the primary that represent our views a third party is a non-starter, that will only result in electing more gun-grabbers. I wish I could see the voting public as this overwhelming majority that support the 2nd as written, but I am based in what I see as the realityó-that a very slim majority support leaving gun laws as they areó-that a far larger majority donít support a complete rollback of the NFA and the GCAó-that a 3rd party of pro 2nd supporters will do nothing but insure eventual confiscation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottync View Post
    Iím not disagreeing with you Mike. We all want more from the NRA. Iíd rather work to make it better as I know you are.

    In my mind, one cant trash the NRA while building up other gun organizations without expecting NRA members to fire back. Iím fine with supporting other organizations but Iím hearing the same kind of sniping that Ive heard in closed threads.
    I agree. That said, legitimate, well-founded criticisms of the organization need to be considered and addressed, regardless of sources or motivations. Are the criticism valid? If not, address them objectively and move on. In any case, attacking the messenger without at least considering the argument is no win.
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  16. #30
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    The NRAís stance is that the Hughes Amendment and NFA is just fine and that the laws banning machine guns are completely reasonable.

    Even Colion Noir says so during his interview on the Rubin Report. He tried to make it sound not like a big deal and swerve around it, but it was very clear that the NRA has the stance that a machine gun ban is good.

    Iíll take my money and membership elsewhere.

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