An argument I hadn't seen yet against 2A

An argument I hadn't seen yet against 2A

This is a discussion on An argument I hadn't seen yet against 2A within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; So I thought I had heard them all, but this is a new one for me. I thought I would post it because I think ...

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    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    An argument I hadn't seen yet against 2A

    So I thought I had heard them all, but this is a new one for me. I thought I would post it because I think we all need to be well versed on the arguments we are up against.

    Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz has a Ph.D. in history from UCLA, she taught in the newly established Native American Studies Program at California State University, Hayward, and helped found the Departments of Ethnic Studies and Womenís Studies. So you can assume she is a raving alt-liberal.

    Ironically, her argument parallels Heller in that she agrees that the RTKABA is an individual right was not intended aid in the forming of militias. But it is where she goes after that which is troublesome. She claims that the sole purpose for 2A was to ensure that whites could continue to kill Native Americans and push them out of their lands AND have the ability to do "slave patrols." For that reason, she reasons 2A should be eliminated.

    I won't even begin to discuss all that I think is wrong with this argument, because I don't think it deserves that much time and it would go on too long. But I hadn't seen this particular argument before and I thought people should be aware of it.

    https://www.alternet.org/2019/06/her...ond-amendment/
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    Ex Member Array CG11's Avatar
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    The proliferation of different "takes" on why the 2nd amendment should be eliminated indicates to me the desperation attached to the liberals search for something to sell to the public in their support. This one is really out there.

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    To the grabbers, current and historical racism is a huge component of their anti-2A argument.
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    Distinguished Member Array kukla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    To the grabbers, current and historical racism is a huge component of their anti-2A argument.
    that seems to be a huge component of all of their "issues"
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    What does, a well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a state mean.
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    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    To the grabbers, current and historical racism is a huge component of their anti-2A argument.
    Although they conveniently ignore that the proponents of the slave laws, the opponents of abolition, where pretty much all Democrats. They also ignore that liberal programs seek to make minorities more entitlement dependent. Metaphorically speaking, those programs "give a man a fish." They don't teach him to fish, or put him in a situation where he has to get good at fishing to prosper. Overall, the situation with poor minorities has not improved under liberal programs.

    I heard a great comment from conservative pundit, 24-year old Lauren Chen, whose online handle is "The Roving Millennial." She says the goal of the progressive left is to create a standard that we are all exactly the same, regardless of race, gender, sexual preference, etc. and therefore, any difference in socioeconomic outcomes must be due to discrimination and oppression, and therefore the government needs to step in to level that out. Self-determination runs directly counter to that agenda and does not fit the narrative. I liked that for two reasons: First, I think it is some really clear thinking on what the left is up to. Second, I liked that a highly subscribed millennial pundit said it. It gives me hope that generation might not be completely lost.
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    A far left guy I know is very anti gun, of course. When I reminded him that cars kill 3x or more people every year than guns do, his reply:

    "But guns are made to kill. Cars are not."

    Therefore, it is OK that cars kill and no one should have guns. .... Is your brain rattled enough now?

    NOTE PLEASE: GUNS DO NOT KILL! We know that but I was trying to talk to him in his language. You really cannot reason with those people. They do speak a totally different language!
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    The Double Jeopardy decision that came out today bothers me much more than this totally idiotic argument.

    The decision today was based on State sovereignty. With the decision re-affirming an exception to Double Jeopardy that a state is sovereign with respect to second prosecutions not being violative of the 5th Amendment, it stands to reason (and will be argued) that the same holds true for the 2nd Amendment. Carving out exceptions to the individual protections of the Bill of Rights in favor of the State is very, very dangerous. Reaffirming bad precedent is even more dangerous.
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    Things like this are why I donít think much of someone having a PHD. 2A is pretty clear cut. It was written after declaring independence from Britain, and James Madison was smart enough to write down the reason for it.
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    Her argument also illustrates a lot of issues, and one of them is the issue of liberal colleges trying to cling to their agenda. She's a Ph.D. in HISTORY and this is what she came up with?

    She is selling this argument because schools dictate that their Ph.D.'s publish and present new "intellectual property." So she's essentially made up a new argument to appease the school and to put her name on something that will be discussed, thereby bringing the school's name into the mix. Bottom line it's all bogus but because she said so it does what they want: makes it look like this is a school of new, progressive thinking and educational exploration, bringing more students in to look at the school and potentially sign up and enroll.

    We are already 10 years down a bad path with higher education in the US. In 2009 the government got into the school loan business and essentially pushed the private sector out of the market. The changes have been subtle but they are out there, many have noticed for instance that in the State of Florida there are no longer any Community Colleges or Junior Colleges. That's because as a four-year program they qualify for better federal lending and they lock their students in for four years of [obtaining nourishment at the public appendage of the anatomy of a cow that typically produces milk.]

    To foment and maintain their cash cow the schools continually press on, closer and closer to a full-blown agenda of a centralized government, and to assist in making that happen they push away not just the 2A but the 1A and a few others as well. Basically the higher education system has become a company store of indoctrination, teaching our kids to accept this form of slavery and enslaving them to the debt of the education they used to teach them this.

    And like I said, we're already 10 years into this - about two and a half graduation cycles at the higher education level.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmc View Post
    What does, a well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a state mean.
    it mens that unless individual were permitted to own and bear arms there would be no means of organizing militias which were a critical part of winning the revolutionary war. The Founders governed through that War and before there was a Continental Army. They knew an armed citizenry was critical to the survival of the Nation since we had only tiny Army after the War. In some of the 13 Colonies there were laws that required ecer able bodied man over 18 to own a long gun so they could be part of militia to repel an. enemy. Therefore it becomes clear that 2A was written not arm a militia but to assure citizens wouls have arms to be part of a militia.
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    But........... Today the Second Amendment protects the Rights of those formerly oppressed people and prevents us horrible non oppressed folks from being able to oppress them anymore. So why does she want to remove their protection from us?
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    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    @bigmacque : Maybe this is too much to hope for:

    I feel like when I grew up, I was indoctrinated the other way, with ultra conservative values, that some religions were bad, some races were inferior, everything that was good for big business was good for all of us, etc. By the time I turned 18, I was rebelling against all of it. If my parents, my school or the media told me something, I was against it, just on principle. Then when I got to about 24, I had moved more back to center, to a fairly reasonable stance. At least I was thinking things through and making my own choices, not the choices anyone told me I should make.

    I can only hope a lot of this coming generation does the same and I see some signs of it. There are millennials on social media taking conservative stances. There are millennials who are into shooting. There are millennials who are joining the military and getting into LE. I hope they will become the thought leaders. One thing is sure: When all these alt-left values come up against the real world, they will not work. The government won't be able to create the reality these kids have been brought to up to expect.

    It might not turn out that way, but I'm hoping it will.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    To the grabbers, current and historical racism is a huge component of their anti-2A argument.
    So they pass laws making it much more difficult and expensive to purchase firearms thus further disenfranchising the very people that have been discriminated against. They should be facilitating them in getting guns to defend themselves against the criminal element rather than making it easier for criminals to prey on them.

    I don't think this argument of racial oppression is going to gain any traction with the general public.
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    VIP Member Array bigmacque's Avatar
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    @jm 552

    I'm with you on this .... one can hope and I certainly do. I like the push to expose trades to kids as an alternative to college - could help this drag back to center that we do need.
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