ATF’s gun measurement change now forcing federal registration of popular guns - Page 2

ATF’s gun measurement change now forcing federal registration of popular guns

This is a discussion on ATF’s gun measurement change now forcing federal registration of popular guns within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Funny that this happened at precisely the time that NRA is going through a public circular firing squad and the lead legislative officer was fired.....hmmmm.....naw, ...

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  1. #16
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    Funny that this happened at precisely the time that NRA is going through a public circular firing squad and the lead legislative officer was fired.....hmmmm.....naw, just a coincidence. Carry on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    I'm disappointed in Trump's gun rights record also, but Hillary would've had the Australian plan fully implemented by now. She said as much and she also said she could do it with 2A still firmly in place. She wouldn't have gotten all the guns, the Australians didn't either, but she would have all gun owners keeping a low profile and being continually being worried about being found out and arrested. Given what we've seen in a couple of states, I believe she could have done it at the federal level.
    She would have gotten Civil War II had she managed to finagle the Australia-styled prohibitions into law. It would have been over by now. JMO, of course.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by PPS1980 View Post
    Funny that this happened at precisely the time that NRA is going through a public circular firing squad and the lead legislative officer was fired.....hmmmm.....naw, just a coincidence. Carry on.
    Shades of Deep State revenge? Kind of seems like the BATFE is purposely issuing "rulings" that they later reverse, making previously "Legal" arms "Illegal" AND owners FELONS if they don't dispose of them? Not even going to the faux exercise of "Buy Backs"! Sounds like a pre-planned, conscious act to intimidate law abiding citizens and hinder the RTKBA!

    Haven't checked dimensions but what of a 16" AR-15 w/collapsable stock? Are there any that would now fall into the under 26" rule if collapsed?

    I have no problem following the law, when it's contstitutional and reasonable. But these shananagins undermine "reasonable" and if this trend continues will undermine the implicit respect law abiding citizens have for the law.

    We've all had the boss/employer who wrote their work rules reactively, I.E. had one rule 1) Had to be on argue grievances off the clock on company property 2) Had to be ready to work clothes on, tools out, etc... before clocking in 3) can't clock in until "exact prescribed time" 4) If OFF THE CLOCK, OFF OF THE PROPERTY (in caps no less). Impossible to adhere to all 4 and virtually impossible for them to enforce. But because Management wrote them, there was no way they would remove them. And they would trot them out when they felt like "nailing" someone to the max.
    Resulting in everyone just ignoring the fools and trying to NOT piss them off. God I'm glad I'm retired!
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  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxwell97 View Post
    If I’m reading this right - ‘guns that once measured over 26”’ - it would apply to rifles that have been modified, not to AR pistols that were built as pistols.
    I got the same out of it. The lower's markings would be the key. Some AR pistols were built using a "multi purpose" lower, meaning it wasn't for a dedicated rifle. With a 7.5" bbl, including receiver and buffer tube, the entire length is right at 23". If these are now under this new law, a 10" bbl with a brace or blade that extends .5" past buffer tube will be legal. Or 7.5" bbl with 3" beyond buffer tube.
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  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by pskys2 View Post
    Shades of Deep State revenge? Kind of seems like the BATFE is purposely issuing "rulings" that they later reverse, making previously "Legal" arms "Illegal" AND owners FELONS if they don't dispose of them? Not even going to the faux exercise of "Buy Backs"! Sounds like a pre-planned, conscious act to intimidate law abiding citizens and hinder the RTKBA!

    Haven't checked dimensions but what of a 16" AR-15 w/collapsable stock? Are there any that would now fall into the under 26" rule if collapsed?

    I have no problem following the law, when it's contstitutional and reasonable. But these shananagins undermine "reasonable" and if this trend continues will undermine the implicit respect law abiding citizens have for the law.

    We've all had the boss/employer who wrote their work rules reactively, I.E. had one rule 1) Had to be on argue grievances off the clock on company property 2) Had to be ready to work clothes on, tools out, etc... before clocking in 3) can't clock in until "exact prescribed time" 4) If OFF THE CLOCK, OFF OF THE PROPERTY (in caps no less). Impossible to adhere to all 4 and virtually impossible for them to enforce. But because Management wrote them, there was no way they would remove them. And they would trot them out when they felt like "nailing" someone to the max.
    Resulting in everyone just ignoring the fools and trying to NOT piss them off. God I'm glad I'm retired!
    A 16" bbl with a 7.5" receiver, stock collapsed, depending on how far the hinge extends, may be under 26".
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  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    So, wait.

    If I’m reading this right, it mainly applies to the AR-type Firearms that use a VFG, and the Shockwave/Tac-14/etc that use a foldable brace that must be in it's extended configuration to reach 26”.

    If you have a brace on a AR-type pistol, and no VFG, it's still classified as a Pistol, and not a Firearm, and therefore is still legal with the brace.

    Or am I missing something?
    I believe you’re reading it correctly. And it also appears to only apply to foldable or telescopic braces. VFGs on pistols have always been no-go.

    I’m not sure that this changes much at all.

  8. #22
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    VERY....CONFUSING!


    ​What’s next for AR pistol owners I wonder.....
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  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    So, wait.

    If I’m reading this right, it mainly applies to the AR-type Firearms that use a VFG, and the Shockwave/Tac-14/etc that use a foldable brace that must be in it's extended configuration to reach 26”.

    If you have a brace on a AR-type pistol, and no VFG, it's still classified as a Pistol, and not a Firearm, and therefore is still legal with the brace.

    Or am I missing something?

    I'm also thinking you're correct. PSA has a pretty good take on it:

    https://palmettostatearmory.com/blog...f-pistols.html

    "Based on the letter, ATF is taking the position that because a stabilizing brace is not an integral part of the firearm, it is not relevant to the overall length measurement. This interpretation opens a number of people up to potential issues of running afoul of the National Firearms Act (“NFA”), particularly those who have built AR or similar style pistols which have a stabilizing brace and vertical foregrip."
    Shooters looking to place a vertical foregrip on their AR pistol are okay to do so as long as the overall length of the pistol is greater than 26 inches. Nothing has changed about that except the very important aspect of how exactly the ATF will be going around measuring everyone's AR pistols.
    So for today at least it appears I'm "OK" even with my less that 26" measuring from end of buffer tub to muzzle:

    Look Ma, no VFG:



    Although I suppose they'll come after my handstop next......
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  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck R. View Post
    I'm also thinking you're correct. PSA has a pretty good take on it:

    https://palmettostatearmory.com/blog...f-pistols.html





    So for today at least it appears I'm "OK" even with my less that 26" measuring from end of buffer tub to muzzle:

    Look Ma, no VFG:



    Although I suppose they'll come after my handstop next......
    You might want to forward a pic to the ATF just to make sure...
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  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    You might want to forward a pic to the ATF just to make sure...
    Nope, no need to give them more ideas. That barrage of "what if" letters are probably what's gotten us to this point.
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  12. #26
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    What I see is ONLY IF it has a verticle foregrip. We were already telling people NOT to add one to their arm braced pistols.
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  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadguy View Post
    I got the same out of it. The lower's markings would be the key. Some AR pistols were built using a "multi purpose" lower, meaning it wasn't for a dedicated rifle. With a 7.5" bbl, including receiver and buffer tube, the entire length is right at 23". If these are now under this new law, a 10" bbl with a brace or blade that extends .5" past buffer tube will be legal. Or 7.5" bbl with 3" beyond buffer tube.
    Just because a lower is stamped "multi purpose' or whatever, means absolutely nothing. The only record that exists when you purchase a stripped lower is the paperwork (4473) which lists "pistol, long gun, or other." It is the dealer's responsibility to fill that portion in. It is your responsibility to use the lower appropriately and legally. Just because it is marked somehow makes no difference.

    And if all else fails, the government will just have to ante up to pay for the room and board for 10-15 million otherwise law abiding citizens who some pinhead bureaucrat just converted to felons with no legal recourse by writing a letter. Not to mention the millions of lawsuits soon to follow.

    I think I'm going to write a letter and have it published far and wide making ALL bureaucrats of every government agency automatic felons for no other reason than they are pinheads who insist on dining at the public trough.
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  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    Just because a lower is stamped "multi purpose' or whatever, means absolutely nothing. The only record that exists when you purchase a stripped lower is the paperwork (4473) which lists "pistol, long gun, or other." It is the dealer's responsibility to fill that portion in. It is your responsibility to use the lower appropriately and legally. Just because it is marked somehow makes no difference.
    When I bought my AR lower, I filled out my part of the 4473, and then the dealer took it and did his thing. I never saw it nor have any idea if he marked it as pistol, rifle, or other. Whatever he marked, it's a rifle now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck R. View Post
    Nope, no need to give them more ideas. That barrage of "what if" letters are probably what's gotten us to this point.
    Once again, my dry sarcasm slipped by.
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  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Once again, my dry sarcasm slipped by.
    The humidity is pretty low in my parts today.......
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