ATF’s gun measurement change now forcing federal registration of popular guns

ATF’s gun measurement change now forcing federal registration of popular guns

This is a discussion on ATF’s gun measurement change now forcing federal registration of popular guns within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; A short while back I posted an article about the ATF and forward vertical grips. This is further "clarification" of the same issue. So, if ...

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    VIP Member Array G26Raven's Avatar
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    ATF’s gun measurement change now forcing federal registration of popular guns

    A short while back I posted an article about the ATF and forward vertical grips. This is further "clarification" of the same issue. So, if I am reading this right, anyone who has an AR pistol now has to buy a tax stamp? Is that correct???

    The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has reportedly changed a key gun measuring standard that is reclassifying popular guns if they have a stabilizing brace.

    In an ATF letter obtained by firearms legal expert, attorney Adam Kraut, the ATF is no longer allowing overall gun measurements to include “stabilizing braces,” meaning that many popular guns like the AR pistol will now be under their standard length and subject to the National Firearms Act (NFA) regulations.

    Guns fitted with a stabilizing brace that once measured more than 26″ overall length (exempting it from NFA regulations) are now not allowed to include the brace in its overall length measurement, meaning if it now falls under 26″ under the new measurement, they are now subject to NFA regulation.


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    VIP Member Array ColoradoDiablo's Avatar
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    So let's see....in 2015 ATF, the same Michael Curtis of the ATF's Firearms Industry Technical Services Branch, wrote that adding stabilizing brace does not make an AR Pistol and now he is saying it does. Darn, over.
    Last edited by Rock and Glock; July 21st, 2019 at 09:12 AM.
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    From the article:

    "Gun owners who don’t register their NFA guns are committing a felony, and there are likely millions of gun owners who will be committing a felony if they don’t register their newly reclassified guns with stabilizing braces."

    Millions of no-longer-law-abiding gun owners. Who woulda thought?
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    My comments at this time might seems a bit harsh, so I'll just stew in my own juice on this one.
    So who is this Will that everybody fires at, what did he do, and how come he's not dead yet??

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    From an NFA trust lawyer's website:

    "NFA weapons must have a serial number and be registered with the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, commonly called the ATF or BATF. (If such a weapon isn’t already registered, you cannot register it; it is illegal to own.)"

    They can't be legally owned, and if this assertion is correct, there is no legal registration mechanism in place for current owners.
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    "Hey, why should we even care about bump stocks?"

    Now you know. Thank goodness we didn't elect an anti-gun Democrat last time out. Sarcasm off.
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    It is only going to get worse. Assuming the linked article is correct Trump’s nominee for ATF Director is anti- gun.

    https://nationalgunrights.org/resour...-atf-director/

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    The AR pistol argument isn’t what is going to win this... if you put a vertical grip on a pistol, you made an AOW. That is a clear violation. I do think the letter was an overstep (ATF felt 26” was the cutoff, and while I never agreed with that procedure, it was “legal”), but that argument isn’t going to win in court. Too clear on what people are trying to do... put a vertical grip on a “pistol.”

    Look at the Black Aces DT. That is a firearm that used the unfolded brace as part of the OAL measurement. Fold that brace... well under 26”. That is a firearm that a letter made into an AOW... and a felony. Plenty were legally possessed.

    I was in a similar boat with my Suarez folding brace kit on my TAC-14. Not a good place to be in, so the brace will be boxed up and left with my parents in NJ. I’ll likely go for an AOW stamp when I move up to ME, and then have them send it once approved... unless it get resolved in the next couple weeks.

    Do I support the newest letter? Absolutely not... laws should be made in the Legislature, especially with how divided they are now. A part of the Executive branch just deciding what is legal is a bad thing. But you need a leg to stand on when arguing in court. AR pistols with vertical grips is not going to be a successful argument.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1942bull View Post
    It is only going to get worse. Assuming the linked article is correct Trump’s nominee for ATF Director is anti- gun.

    https://nationalgunrights.org/resour...-atf-director/
    Relax. Our current pro-gun Attorney General won't let these repressive types have their way with us...

    I know, more sarcasm.
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    At least New Zealand offers compensation to owners whose guns it has outlawed ex post facto:

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/zealander...090411922.html
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    Thank goodness we didn't elect an anti-gun Democrat last time out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Screwball216 View Post
    The AR pistol argument isn’t what is going to win this... if you put a vertical grip on a pistol, you made an AOW. That is a clear violation. I do think the letter was an overstep (ATF felt 26” was the cutoff, and while I never agreed with that procedure, it was “legal”), but that argument isn’t going to win in court. Too clear on what people are trying to do... put a vertical grip on a “pistol.”

    Look at the Black Aces DT. That is a firearm that used the unfolded brace as part of the OAL measurement. Fold that brace... well under 26”. That is a firearm that a letter made into an AOW... and a felony. Plenty were legally possessed.

    I was in a similar boat with my Suarez folding brace kit on my TAC-14. Not a good place to be in, so the brace will be boxed up and left with my parents in NJ. I’ll likely go for an AOW stamp when I move up to ME, and then have them send it once approved... unless it get resolved in the next couple weeks.

    Do I support the newest letter? Absolutely not... laws should be made in the Legislature, especially with how divided they are now. A part of the Executive branch just deciding what is legal is a bad thing. But you need a leg to stand on when arguing in court. AR pistols with vertical grips is not going to be a successful argument.
    Not everyone had the same motives as you when they did what they did. Thank goodness you are on our side.
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    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    So, wait.

    If I’m reading this right, it mainly applies to the AR-type Firearms that use a VFG, and the Shockwave/Tac-14/etc that use a foldable brace that must be in it's extended configuration to reach 26”.

    If you have a brace on a AR-type pistol, and no VFG, it's still classified as a Pistol, and not a Firearm, and therefore is still legal with the brace.

    Or am I missing something?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    "Hey, why should we even care about bump stocks?"

    Now you know. Thank goodness we didn't elect an anti-gun Democrat last time out. Sarcasm off.
    I'm disappointed in Trump's gun rights record also, but Hillary would've had the Australian plan fully implemented by now. She said as much and she also said she could do it with 2A still firmly in place. She wouldn't have gotten all the guns, the Australians didn't either, but she would have all gun owners keeping a low profile and being continually being worried about being found out and arrested. Given what we've seen in a couple of states, I believe she could have done it at the federal level.
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    If I’m reading this right - ‘guns that once measured over 26”’ - it would apply to rifles that have been modified, not to AR pistols that were built as pistols.
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