2A, it's seems to have become a single focus with so many - Page 5

2A, it's seems to have become a single focus with so many

This is a discussion on 2A, it's seems to have become a single focus with so many within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; After the political season in the Capitol, and all of the attacks on the 2A by the powerful, I was very tuned into the connection ...

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Thread: 2A, it's seems to have become a single focus with so many

  1. #61
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    After the political season in the Capitol, and all of the attacks on the 2A by the powerful, I was very tuned into the connection because of so many of "us" spent so much time and effort supporting the 2A in the Capitol. Beating back the attempt to pass a Red Flag Law was the final exhausting battle. After the Legislative Session formally ended there was a pall of relief, of silence, and it took some time for folks to regain their footing and joie de vivre.




    Then followed the El Paso, Midland-Odessa, Ohio, and the constant political whine. The whine of ten thousand progressives being amplified in the media as 20 progressives try to gain traction for 2020.

    Of course we all focus on the 2A, because every day, every week, every month we have new boneheads attacking us for nothing. The only thing protecting us is the 2A. None of the 20 understand a damn thing about "Rights" and they all confuse their feelings and the feelings of the fellow progressives with "rights".

    An Independent Legislator here in my District succinctly summed up his attitude, and some of his constituents attitudes when discussing a "Local Rule" Option that would have supplanted the State's Gun Pre-emption Law:

    "People have a right to feel safe"

    And we wonder why we are sensitive about the 2A?

    I think that singularity of thought is the result of people under attack intellectually and emotionally constantly and developing a siege mentality. We can rationalize the social media any way we want, but when we watch 20 goobers line up and spew 20 fairy tales about free this and free that and we're going to take away all of the guns and eat unicorns while watching rainbow TV has an impact.

    I get it.

    I am tired.

    Potentially, as a result, some start lashing out or taking extremist or politically uncomfortable positions that create discord and disagreement herein and in certain public spheres that are responding to the din of the constant whines. Someone thinks carrying a slung M4 into W*M will be a great idea to push forward the "agenda" while others withdraw into their grey envelope and deep carry EDC's and worry about the future, or fuss about private property boundaries.

    Many don't even understand the concept of rights, or law, or the intersections of those concepts. I have heard some argue vehemently, almost to the point of a duel, that privately owned property is "public space" because the owners invite customers into that space to shop, or that said company is "publicly traded" therefore the space is public.

    The stupidity, the lack of thought, the divisiveness, the constant din of the media takes a toll.

    I suggest that we be more like @Tangle , and regain our joie de vivre, or @HotGuns , and just push back from this table. We are all full, we need to get some fresh air.

    Go shoot. Do anything but sit here, and regain your joie de vivre, however you can.

    Have a BBQ, invite friends over to shoot. Do something you enjoy!
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  2. #62
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    A number of people identify the right to keep and bear arms as a civil right by describing pro 2A organizations as civil rights orgs.

    If the right to keep and bear arms is a civil right, it is treated differently than other civil rights, which begs the questions of whether it is a civil right and whether various civil rights should be enforced differently.
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  3. #63
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    I describe the largest strongest 2A organization in the state as "the state's largest civil rights organization" in the state.

    I make the distinction as articulated here:

    Unlike other rights concepts, such as human rights or natural rights, in which people acquire rights inherently, perhaps from God or nature, civil rights must be given and guaranteed by the power of the state.

    Therefore, they vary greatly over time, culture, and form of government and tend to follow societal trends that condone or abhor particular types of discrimination. For example, the civil rights of the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and queer (LGBTQ) community have only recently come to the forefront of political debate in some Western democracies. Britannica
    I use the term "Civil" to force people to consider their rights, even if they are not 2A. I try to make a big tent. I will pull all rights into that tent, without fail. I may be guilty of semantical murder, but I consider all rights natural or inherent, and don't place much importance on the civil law finally catching up with my libertarian natural rights philosophy. The non-aggression principle again.........
    Last edited by Rock and Glock; September 18th, 2019 at 02:40 PM. Reason: Articulating my thought process more finely :)
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  5. #64
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    Sigh . . .

    I guess I'm in sensory overload with all these threads about what 2A rights mean. I think I will take a strategic pause from these discussions. Please play on through though.
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  6. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    Many don't even understand the concept of rights, or law, or the intersections of those concepts.
    This is something I've found frustrating, personally. The legal right to arms is not the same as the moral or philosophical right to arms. Some seem to take the 2A as meaning that the entire country has to agree with their particular beliefs about their rights, when in reality, it's nothing more or less than a part of the law.

    Perhaps because of this, some also show a prideful disdain for their opponents and for the debate itself. Anyone who doesn't share their exact beliefs about the issue becomes an enemy, and they're offended by even the notion that it's necessary to convince people to agree with them - as if one sentence in law obviously settles the issue, in their favor, for all time. Then, after boasting how they'd never waste their time trying to win over an "anti", they complain when public opinion is going against them. That in particular drives me nuts.
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    @spclopr8tr : You need to go shoot up a storm, eat some good food, and get the hell away from the keyboard! THAT is where I am heading!
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  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by MYMOMSSON View Post
    What if said candidate was pro 2A and pro abortion?
    What if said candidate was anti 2A and anti abortion?
    That is what is called a conundrum. However I have never experienced this yet. It seems they normally go togther.
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  9. #68
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    I think a large part of our problem is the fact that many of the more vocal "2A advocates " do not even have a basic understanding of what the Constitution actually is.
    On a forum like this it can just be tedious dealing with them. The problem is when they spout off to those "outside our community". Flagrant displays of ignorance to the media and the general public do not help our cause. They feed the stereotypes that those who would disarm us promote. They are much more easily pointed to as an example of what "they" call the "problem" than the soft spoken, articulate advocate that can produce verifiable facts in statistics and in law.
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  10. #69
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    Y'all believe what you want. I don't care.

    I'm going to continue to buy what I can, while I can while some of you bicker, whine, moan, groan, lament, cry, snivel, fret, or sit in a corner and rub your hands together.

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  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Y'all believe what you want. I don't care.

    I'm going to continue to buy what I can, while I can while some of you bicker, whine, moan, groan, lament, cry, snivel, fret, or sit in a corner and rub your hands together.

    Meh. I haven't spent time in the corner since the second grade.
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  12. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Meh. I haven't spent time in the corner since the second grade.


    Dang it. I must be slow learner.
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  13. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    I think a large part of our problem is the fact that many of the more vocal "2A advocates " do not even have a basic understanding of what the Constitution actually is.
    On a forum like this it can just be tedious dealing with them. The problem is when they spout off to those "outside our community". Flagrant displays of ignorance to the media and the general public do not help our cause. They feed the stereotypes that those who would disarm us promote. They are much more easily pointed to as an example of what "they" call the "problem" than the soft spoken, articulate advocate that can produce verifiable facts in statistics and in law.
    Gun control/"gun violence" has been front and center for about 7 years now. Yes, I know there has been a push for gun control before that, but the continuous assault had not been so strong, and the resources of the internet were not available like they have been during this time frame. Every statistic and fact that you can present has been presented over and over again. All of the anti's have heard it all. The people you say "feed the stereotypes", that "they call the problem" are the problem because they are the ones getting things done, while the people still pushing facts are sitting on the sidelines where they are out of the way of the antis.
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  14. #73
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    @AzQkr has once again raised consciousness with a well stated opinion that I fully support.

    This is the first time I have ever replied in a thread with a statement I made in another thread (School Shooting Hoodies). it is my attempt to point out the wrong headedness of some 2A advocates. With that I repost it below.

    I read numerous statement of outrage over the Anti 2A folks. I see them being referred to with all kinds of denigrating terms. I see 2A advocates asserting their rights supersede the rights of others like businesses, organizations and private citizens. Asserting our right is God Given while claiming their right is a legal privilege is delusional. God did not write the Constitution. Men did. Our 2A rights were defied by men. They did not assert that they came from God. The asserted the law of nature compelled every man. like any animal, to defend himself. There is no moral high ground. There is only common sense reasoning, and many 2A individual and organizational advocates have failed to use that fact properly in protecting and advancing gun rights. Fighting our adversaries on the basis of morality is like jousting with windmills. The windmill never loses, and it never wins.

    Ralph Waldo Emerson wrote great essay titled Common Sense and Fair Dealing.. Therein he makes the perfect case for resolving disagreements by applying common sense instead of emotion as well as recognizing that fair dealing with opposing parties doe nothing less than astound men. Our side needs to calm relate facts based upon actual evidence to prove our position is fair, not right but fair. we need to stop trying to bludgeon the Antis with slurs, insults, name calling, and moral arguments. We need to have facts to prove our points and continually and calmly restate them in answering every attack on our rights. Unfortunately, that time proven method has been lost on the NRA who prefers to fight by creating fear. It has been lost on some in this forum who prefer to denounce adversaries as demons trying to take god-give rights away.

    When we call adversaries libtards, commies, idiots, and other names all we do is look like we are incapable of making common sense arguments to support our beliefs. Suppose instead actually presented the existing evidence that good guys with guns actually do frequently stop bad guys with guns. Would that not be more effective that just chanting the slogan that our adversaries deny being true. Make them prove the facts are wrong. instead of engaging in a war of unsubstantiated claims. Common sense and plain dealing would astound them. Morality claims will not.
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  15. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok View Post

    Gun control/"gun violence" has been front and center for about 7 years now. Yes, I know there has been a push for gun control before that, but the continuous assault had not been so strong, and the resources of the internet were not available like they have been during this time frame. Every statistic and fact that you can present has been presented over and over again. All of the anti's have heard it all. The people you say "feed the stereotypes", that "they call the problem" are the problem because they are the ones getting things done, while the people still pushing facts are sitting on the sidelines where they are out of the way of the antis.
    So who do you think was the better standard bearer for our cause?

    https://youtu.be/27fJ1qKobiQ
    or
    https://youtu.be/KpHtbXVW5D8
    or
    https://youtu.be/ror9v2LwHoY

    If the next election was to decide the future of gun rights in America, which of those three would you choose to represent us to the undecided voters and why? As to the ones you don't choose, why did you eliminate them?
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  16. #75
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    The TV-News lead "Gun Violence" then they show the location/neighborhoods and individuals/population thus predominantly ethnic minority. Its politically correct terminology. Until you call the problem actually what it is (people on people) as opposed to politically correct terminology the issues won't be resolved. If we had no guns there would not be a violence problem, is a misnomer. The anti stance in regards to the 2nd Amendment is a scapegoat for cultural issues that in part, we as a people need to be resolve. Are there majority population issues there certainly are which need to be addressed also!

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