2A, it's seems to have become a single focus with so many - Page 6

2A, it's seems to have become a single focus with so many

This is a discussion on 2A, it's seems to have become a single focus with so many within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by mcp1810 So who do you think was the better standard bearer for our cause? https://youtu.be/27fJ1qKobiQ or https://youtu.be/KpHtbXVW5D8 or https://youtu.be/ror9v2LwHoY If the next ...

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Thread: 2A, it's seems to have become a single focus with so many

  1. #76
    VIP Member Array Havok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    So who do you think was the better standard bearer for our cause?

    https://youtu.be/27fJ1qKobiQ
    or
    https://youtu.be/KpHtbXVW5D8
    or
    https://youtu.be/ror9v2LwHoY

    If the next election was to decide the future of gun rights in America, which of those three would you choose to represent us to the undecided voters and why? As to the ones you don't choose, why did you eliminate them?
    As much as I hate to say it because I generally think he is an idiot, Alex Jones. What I find interesting is that these interviews took place between 6-20 years ago, and people are still arguing the same things, to people who don't care, so you really just proved my point here.
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  2. #77
    VIP Member Array CDW4ME's Avatar
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    Sometimes (I've figured out) what people don't say (post) is as relevant as what they do.
    Wal-Mart and a couple other stores say no open carry, 2A abomination.
    Those that did open carry at Wal-Mart, did they also open carry at restaurants, potlucks, family reunions, vets (pet) office, visiting relatives, basically everywhere?
    Or did they pick & choose, OC at Wal-Mart (mostly strangers) but not around relatives or when eating at Olive Garden ect...
    I've not seen someone post that they OC at Wal-Mart/Kroger but conceal most other places; what some people don't post is as relevant as what they do.

    Preemptive: If you OC everywhere, then that ^ doesn't include you.

    Someone posts, "I open carry at Wal-Mart and nobody notices or says anything"
    What is not said: I didn't see anyone I knew in Wal-Mart, all strangers to me.
    I do not recall ever seeing, "I open carried at the family reunion (or funeral) and nobody noticed or said anything"

    More states have legal conceal carry now than ever before, wasn't legal here till mid 1990's.
    Currently, there is no asinine & ineffective nationwide AWB like suffered from 94-04
    Currently, most people (majority of states) can have "high capacity" magazines and ammo delivered to their door.
    But... Wal-Mart/Kroger ask people not to OC (concealed carry still fine) and that is like the end of the 2A for some.

    There are 3 restaurants with outdoor patios where I can take my dog, Lowes and Tractor Supply are also dog friendly.
    Wal-Mart is "service animals only" - no pets. Legality of a pet dog in a grocery aside ...
    I'm going to apply OC logic that I've seen to me & the dog:
    If people saw me in Wal-Mart (well dressed) with a well mannered dog it would change their opinion of dogs in public, they would be more receptive.
    There are a few places I can take my dog, but if more people saw me with the dog most public places then attitudes toward pet dogs in public would change.
    Surely there are not people that don't want to see pet dogs when they are out shopping.
    I can't take my dog everywhere, its an abomination of my freedom.
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    I'm not inclined to disarm for a concert, game, (entertainment) and I ain't going on a plane or cruise.
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  3. #78
    Member Array OttoLoader's Avatar
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    I do like to discuss firearms and such.
    It would be terrific if I did not have to keep up with the gun banners.
    Problem is the gun grabbers keep attacking my right to own (keep) and carry (bear) a.k.a. right to keep and bear arms.
    If I and other pro second amendment voters do not keep up with the proposed legislation and counter those proposals, then very quickly all private ownership would be essentially prohibited. Think NYC etc.
    So if the antis stop attempts to infringe on our right to keep and bear arms, then we could stop discussing those attempts too.
    Be sure to contact the WH , Senate and House during this latest attempt .
    Also provide good solutions not just "I oppose gun control".
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  5. #79
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    or their 1A rights: I admin some facebook pages and there are strict rules about what can and cannot be discussed and what kind of language and behavior will not be tolerated. People scream about their 1st amendment rights being violated and I point out that I am not Congress, I am the King.

  6. #80
    VIP Member Array Struckat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    This country is in deep doo doo at so many levels, but it seems to me that instead of focusing on societal issues, many here seem want to focus on the gat they carry, to point of making false statements of facts [ IE, private business vs a gun open carrying public ].

    A fair example of singularity thought process. "It's all about me, me, me". "you can't deny me what I believe are my rights", etc.

    May catch some slack, but WGAS, my opinion is that far too many members have basically admitted, through their posts, no qualms about THEIR perceived right/s and particularly where 2a is concerned, trumping anyone else's rights.

    YOUR rights end where my rights begin sorta mentality. That doesn't create an environment of civil discourse, just the opposite. The more I hear the fanatical wailing and whining from some members about their freakin 2a rights, the less I could give a crap about 2A in general

    Fire retardant suit on, all you 2A fanatics, fire away. And people wonder why we eat our own and can't agree on so many levels?
    I think your point is well typed.
    I donít think I am one that talks in such threads very much. I do feel very strongly about the 2A, yes because I want to keep my guns, but more importantly I see the 2A as a cornerstone of what has now become a house of cards.

    You are right, everything is fubar, and I think that the 2A fight is the only thing left. Once that is lost, or the light s go out, we will descend into anarchy that leads to a totalitarian government that will fill the void.
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  7. #81
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    Iím reading here because itís dark outside, I have no lights on my range, itís in the woods so I donít relish dropping stuff and waiting Ďtil tomorrow to look for it in the leaves and grass. Plus I worked my butt off today cutting, clearing, stacking firewood, and digging. My Glocks donít need cleaning. Ever. My ammoís been sorted, stacked, resorted, restacked, put in ammo cans, changed to different cans. I do have a light in my shop so I could redo all the ammo. But I donít want to. So iím happier reading here than not.

    I cherry pick what I read in DC. Iím most interested in skill building, training, learning. I want to maintain our rights to own, carry, and to safely convert money to noise. That involves supporting appropriate lobbying orgs as well as my relentlessly advising my district representatives in State gov and my congress reps of the conditional nature of my vote. The conspicuous gnashing of opinions and flailing of keyboards, amongst ourselves, is meaningless to our elected reps and to everyone else who doesnít read our threads. I read what I like to learn about. Most of yíall are way more experienced and smarter than I, so this is a good place for my reading.

    Okay, I think the mods should close this thread. Iím not going to learn anything else here.
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  8. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Struckat View Post
    I think your point is well typed.
    I donít think I am one that talks in such threads very much. I do feel very strongly about the 2A, yes because I want to keep my guns, but more importantly I see the 2A as a cornerstone of what has now become a house of cards.

    You are right, everything is fubar, and I think that the 2A fight is the only thing left. Once that is lost, or the light s go out, we will descend into anarchy that leads to a totalitarian government that will fill the void.
    Doomsday scenarios of descending into anarchy are fraught with boogeymans that won't ever materialize. There's many more scenario that could result in the same result faster than repercussions of 2A. Hence the thread about so many making 2A their cornerstone when that's not the leading cause of the failure and decent society is experiencing today
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  9. #83
    VIP Member Array forester58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDW4ME View Post
    I can't take my dog everywhere, its an abomination of my freedom.
    I missed the place in the BOR that mentioned dogs.

    Here is a classic anti-gun argument that sounds pretty much like your own. "We have to register cars which can be dangerous so it only makes sense to register guns"

  10. #84
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    Iíll make my tent even bigger.

    Iíll say Gun Owners of Maine is the largest rights supporter in the state. There. 😀
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  11. #85
    VIP Member Array Struckat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    Doomsday scenarios of descending into anarchy are fraught with boogeymans that won't ever materialize. There's many more scenario that could result in the same result faster than repercussions of 2A. Hence the thread about so many making 2A their cornerstone when that's not the leading cause of the failure and decent society is experiencing today
    I agree and think doomsday is unlikely. Rather a slow death by 1000 cuts.
    The current discredit of law enforcement is a good example.

    I think part of it is that fighting for the 2A is a last gasp prior to the death of the republic.
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  12. #86
    VIP Member Array Havok's Avatar
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    Some wise words.

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    We get the government we deserve.

  13. #87
    VIP Member Array CDW4ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forester58 View Post
    I missed the place in the BOR that mentioned dogs.

    Here is a classic anti-gun argument that sounds pretty much like your own. "We have to register cars which can be dangerous so it only makes sense to register guns"
    You see a dog?
    I read on here that people are so preoccupied with their phone they won't notice.
    If someone did notice or "say something" then I just lie, like the beaten cliche of saying printing is a colostomy bag.

    Sir, you can't bring a dog in the store. Excuse me, what did you just call my child? He has a medical condition, how dare you.

    No, I'm not going to do that, its an analogy.
    Some open carriers fantasize that people seeing them packing a gun will result in people accepting the gun.
    I made it less personal by using a dog, seeing me with my dog in public is not likely to change negative opinion about dog in public.

    I'm not being anti OC, rather anti being inconsistent (OC some places but not others, pick & choose) and use of analogy to address unrealistic view.
    Seeing someone do something (regardless of whether they consider it a right) does not equate to acceptance, changing opinion (analogy #2 - two guys holding hands).
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    I'm not inclined to disarm for a concert, game, (entertainment) and I ain't going on a plane or cruise.
    "Wouldn't want to or Nobody volunteer to" get shot by _____ is not indicative of quickly incapacitating.

  14. #88
    VIP Member Array Havok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDW4ME View Post
    You see a dog?
    I read on here that people are so preoccupied with their phone they won't notice.
    If someone did notice or "say something" then I just lie, like the beaten cliche of saying printing is a colostomy bag.

    Sir, you can't bring a dog in the store. Excuse me, what did you just call my child? He has a medical condition, how dare you.

    No, I'm not going to do that, its an analogy.
    Some open carriers fantasize that people seeing them packing a gun will result in people accepting the gun.
    I made it less personal by using a dog, seeing me with my dog in public is not likely to change negative opinion about dog in public.

    I'm not being anti OC, rather anti being inconsistent (OC some places but not others, pick & choose) and use of analogy to address unrealistic view.
    Seeing someone do something (regardless of whether they consider it a right) does not equate to acceptance, changing opinion (analogy #2 - two guys holding hands).
    Iím fine with people having a negative opinion of OC. Iím fine with them having a negative opinion of CC. Iím fine with people having a negative opinion of guns. That doesnít change whether I think people should be able to carry, openly or concealed, the gun of their choice. Whether or not they approve is their choice. They are going to deal with it either way.
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  15. #89
    Senior Member Array Psycho41's Avatar
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    Well, of course 2A is one of the primary discussions here and many will be very ardent in their positions: this is a forum dedicated to concealed carry and attracts people that will have strong opinions on the subject. Further, while public opinion may be more "balanced" the viewpoint of this membership will gravitate to the right, so there will appear to be more people here with what would be considered extreme views. I'm sure if you go to some forum dedicated to gun control, there won't be any members making the case that there is an individual right to KBA so any gun control laws will need to adhere to that right. But, you would find many members advocating for extreme bans, confiscation, excessive taxes, classifying the NRA as a terrorist org., etc.

    But, as with any cause, those with extreme views run the risk of hurting their cause by turning off those in "the center". However, I fear that there are very few left in the center in our society with regard to any subject: guns, the border, abortion, drugs, etc. We are deeply divided and that only serves to push each side further apart to those extremes.

    But, as others have stated, our Rights are respective to the government and what it can/cannot do to us. We do not have rights with respect to other people or businesses; in some cases there are laws that govern some aspects: e.g. I don't have a right to unreasonable search and seizure by another individual, but there are laws that would make that a crime. But, in other instances, I do not have those rights at all: I do not have freedom of speech on facebook, if someone tries to sue me, they don't have to provide me a lawyer, if my company thinks I may have stolen something I don't have the right to remain silent. They can't make me talk, but they can certainly fire me for not cooperating.
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    "This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty.... The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."
    - St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England, 1803

    The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."
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