VA: Gov. Ralph Northam: Register Your AR-15 with Government or Hand It Over - Page 8

VA: Gov. Ralph Northam: Register Your AR-15 with Government or Hand It Over

This is a discussion on VA: Gov. Ralph Northam: Register Your AR-15 with Government or Hand It Over within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by jmf552 @ SouthernBoyVA : I can't disagree with what you say as possibilities. But in this fight, defeatist thinking leads to apathy ...

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Thread: VA: Gov. Ralph Northam: Register Your AR-15 with Government or Hand It Over

  1. #106
    VIP Member Array SouthernBoyVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    @SouthernBoyVA : I can't disagree with what you say as possibilities. But in this fight, defeatist thinking leads to apathy and apathy is how we got where we are. It plays right into Northam's hands. We need to believe we can beat this if we are to even have the slightest chance.

    One thing about politics is the pendulum always swings. Actions have reactions. We need to stymie this current threat through legal, activist resistance any way we can and work to get the pendulum swinging back. I think if the patriots of 1775 had the luxury to accomplish what they wanted through peaceful demonstration and the electoral process, they would have tried that first and they would have put a lot of effort into it.

    This is not happening to us because of some outside force. We, collectively, are doing it to ourselves. It is the politicians we elected who are doing it. It is some of our neighbors who support it because they can't see the truth. It is the people we voted for, the RINOs who have let us down. All that is still potentially under our control.

    What I see is they pass these laws, but get very little cooperation from gun owners and local officials. They only get token confiscation, turn-ins and registration. The guns and accessories they outlaw mostly get hidden and there is never the proof or manpower to find them.

    Activism continues to rise, putting pressure on the politicians. I appreciate that in almost everyone of our counties, 1,000, 2,000, even 3,000 people have shown up for city and county council meetings! That is more than have shown up for any of these meetings ever. Heck, some of those meeting had more people show up than have every shown up for Lobby Day! And we will have over 90% of the counties and cities having passed 2A sanctuary resolutions. I don't even care how much legal authority those resolutions have. I care that we have finally, finally, gotten a lot of VA gun owners off their butts and showing up.

    Maine beat this same situation this past year and they didn't have a sanctuary movement. The VCDL is going to move forward with a giant Lobby Day and then hound every anti-gun committee meeting with hundreds of people. Keep in mind, we only need two Dem senators or five Dem delegates to vote pro-gun and none of these bills passes. We have had that before.
    I agree with your assessments. My post was just a wandering trip into two scenarios. I seriously doubt that if there was an inkling or the beginnings of armed resistance that Northam would push hard to advance such an agenda. There's just too much to lose by doing something like that.

    But I have lived too long to believe that never means never. I'm a realist and I don't like some of the diatribe that seems to be coming out of Richmond. While I may not believe nothing extreme is in our near future, I wouldn't hold my breath that all is well and they were just testing the waters.
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  2. #107
    Senior Member Array dp1911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    I have seen that article it's old news. I am interested in the claim of planning to order cutting utilities. That was the headline for your post.

    The Paul Willer FB site you reference also says that he is an independent agent with United Healcare and he lives in NY. Why would anyone give him any credibility, much less enough credibility to spread a fake news like this?
    Old news??? The article came out yesterday. And, for the 3rd time, that article doesn't say anything about cutting comms, cell service etc.. I believe it (the article) is used to give background

    Well, I guess that settles it then, a person living in NY working in healthcare has no credibility. Would be a crying shame if, a guy - or group of guys in VA, decided to look at the possibility of alternative comms.

  3. #108
    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johndp1911 View Post
    Old news??? The article came out yesterday. And, for the 3rd time, that article doesn't say anything about cutting comms, cell service etc.. I believe it (the article) is used to give background

    Well, I guess that settles it then, a person living in NY working in healthcare has no credibility. Would be a crying shame if, a guy - or group of guys in VA, decided to look at the possibility of alternative comms.
    We have alternative comms. in VA through the VCDL that has the inside track and this guy is no way part of it. And the article may have come out yesterday, but the national guard story is days old. Northam is just rehashing stuff he has already said, and the media is hanging on every word.

    If you want the latest, sign up for the VCDL Alert. It's free and they don't share your email address. Also Sen. Amanda Chase's FB page.
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  5. #109
    Senior Member Array M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    ...Section III of Heller states that the rights secured by the second amendment are not unlimited, and gives some examples...[emphasis added]
    Yup. That's it. Right there.

    No, Scalia didn't specify "reasonable regulation," but he left the door wide open to unreasonable interpretation of "not unlimited."
    A true "strict constructionalist" would not have left that particular door open. But instead, he was pandering to the dissenting justices.
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  6. #110
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    This post was deleted by its original poster (me).

    Sorry 'bout that.
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    Steve
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  7. #111
    VIP Member Array zonker1986's Avatar
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    so if one is not willing to "risk" everything for our Constitutional Rights and Freedom, then what is worth risking it all? After reading more of this thread I totally understand how Virginia slipped into the Abyss. Such Apathy is terrifying and exactly the reason the Governor of Virginia is running slip shod right over your faces there.

    I pray other States have more backbone in the face of complete Tyranny of the Gravest EXTREME......I guess Virginians don't care enough to "bother" to save their State from complete destruction if it means "losing" everything.

    Don't worry. You have already lost EVERYTHING, and do not see?
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  8. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1911A1 View Post
    Yup. That's it. Right there.

    No, Scalia didn't specify "reasonable regulation," but he left the door wide open to unreasonable interpretation of "not unlimited."
    A true "strict constructionalist" would not have left that particular door open. But instead, he was pandering to the dissenting justices.
    Scalia was an originalist, not a constructionalist. He wasn't one to pander to Stevens or Breyer.

    There are limits on all rights. Here are some limits on the second amendment:

    A person being tried for murder cannot sit in court with a 1911 on his hip.

    When you go to see a relative that is in prison, you cannot walk into the prison with a few AR's on your back.

    One cannot fly a commercial airline while carrying several loaded firearms.

    If you agree with the above limits, the you must agree that the right to bear arms is not an "unlimited" right. There are limits, but the limits must be narrow and only to achieve a compelling governmental interest.

    There are limits on all of our rights, not just the second amendment.
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  9. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by zonker1986 View Post
    so if one is not willing to "risk" everything for our Constitutional Rights and Freedom, then what is worth risking it all? After reading more of this thread I totally understand how Virginia slipped into the Abyss. Such Apathy is terrifying and exactly the reason the Governor of Virginia is running slip shod right over your faces there.

    I pray other States have more backbone in the face of complete Tyranny of the Gravest EXTREME......I guess Virginians don't care enough to "bother" to save their State from complete destruction if it means "losing" everything.

    Don't worry. You have already lost EVERYTHING, and do not see?
    I've always likened the push from the left as standing next to someone and trying to push them over, if I go up to them and shove them there will be resistance, on the other hand if I engage them in amiable conversation, get close, get hands on and very gently apply pressure sooner or later they will lose their balance and fall over without resistance as they didn't realize my intentions.

    Everyone has their own lives to live and are focused on family, kids, jobs, hobbies (if lucky) and most politics is just noise.
    Most people are indifferent and hard to motivate.
    a small percentage will become engaged and can be organized to act, but will never instigate, control or lead.
    a very miniscule percentage are movers and shakers.
    It applies to everytning in life.
    One of the reasons I have a tendency to be a bit difficult is my philosophy is Lead, Follow or get out of the way. If I'm in a meeting, group or activity with a competent leader I am a good follower and will follow directions well (if the leader will accept direction and is just inexperienced I will happily give it with no thought to recognition). If the leader is not competent, is lazy or just passive I can only take so long before I exert myself and start moving the group where I feel it should go (does have a tendency to irritate some). I have no patience for the third type (those who just stand around with thumb up their @@@) and just try to ignore them or leave them way behind.
    I believe it was President Truman who had a placque on his desk that read: "It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit." Reagan also had a similar quote.

  10. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by PPS1980 View Post
    Gov. Ralph Northam (D) announced Monday his “assault weapons” ban will mean AR-15 owners can either register their guns with the government or hand them over.

    The Virginia Mercury reported Northam spokeswoman Alena Yarmosky used a statement to say, “The governor’s assault weapons ban will include a grandfather clause for individuals who already own assault weapons, with the requirement they register their weapons before the end of a designated grace period.”

    https://www.virginiamercury.com/2019...TTI4BjLuiKfK-Y
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  11. #115
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    I've always likened the push from the left as standing next to someone and trying to push them over, if I go up to them and shove them there will be resistance, on the other hand if I engage them in amiable conversation, get close, get hands on and very gently apply pressure sooner or later they will lose their balance and fall over without resistance as they didn't realize my intentions.
    All it takes is invading their space. You never need to actually touch them usually. Psychic energy. Lean in and make them back off.

    Virginia has taken several great steps! Virginia now must keep the momentum with them, and out of the hands of the politicians. Create Regional Groups to buttress the City and County Groups. Set up comm channels (google groups, facebook, etc) so the City and County Groups can call in reinforcements. The VCDL needs to be able and willing to call on the Regional Groups and City/County Groups.

    Lobby Day should/needs to be a humungous show of force! Humungous!

    I would recommend color coordinated shirts and jackets to make an impression when you fill the rotunda and overflow into the halls and parking lots!

    Keep the pressure up! Make it constant! The Governor, the Reps and Senators trying to pass this crap need to fear you, fear telephone calls from you, fear letters and e-mails from you, and fear that you will take their lucrative once comfortable, cushy lifestyle away and vote them out of office! Constant pressure! Can Northam run again? Make that his fear - you can absolutely squelch any hope he ever has of further achievements if he continues. Colorado did exactly that to the lead gun-grabber in 2013 - he is now a persona non grata in some rinky-dinky suburb in of Denver scratching out a living not at the public trough.

    One of the reasons I have a tendency to be a bit difficult is my philosophy is Lead, Follow or get out of the way. If I'm in a meeting, group or activity with a competent leader I am a good follower and will follow directions well (if the leader will accept direction and is just inexperienced I will happily give it with no thought to recognition). If the leader is not competent, is lazy or just passive I can only take so long before I exert myself and start moving the group where I feel it should go (does have a tendency to irritate some). I have no patience for the third type (those who just stand around with thumb up their @@@) and just try to ignore them or leave them way behind.
    These leaders, City, County, and those that rise to be Regional Coordinators, probably adhere to the above, but the better you organize now, the more effective you will become. Time is not on your side.

    A year ago in Maine we did not have Regional Groups for Gun Owners of Maine ("GOME"). We now have six or seven, all focusing around GOME, and all ready to go to Augusta.

    I have all of the confidence in the world that Virginia, the VCDL and the Sanctuary Movement will survive, flourish, and overwhelm the gun grabbers! It can be done!

    If you need more numbers, I'll bet a bunch of fellow citizens in other states would arrive. That needs to be handled carefully though, otherwise it comes off like carpet-baggers.

    When Maine sat down with our Governor last session to hammer out some details, we told the NRA and NAGR to stay away - they would not have helped. They listened, we won. Understand the local political landscape.
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  12. #116
    Senior Member Array M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PEF View Post
    ...There are limits on all of our rights, not just the second amendment.
    That is, of course, true. One may not yell "FIRE!" needlessly in a crowded theater (to use an oft-cited example).
    But when Scalia wrote the majority opinion, and left "reasonable regulation" open to interpretation, he also left unreasonable regulation on the table. He gave no "crowded theater" example, or, indeed, any example at all, as guidance within the majority opinion.

    I believe that to have been a grave error.
    It is an error which we will have to deal with, expensively and at length over time, and with which we are not generally confronted in matters pertaining to (for example) the First Amendment.
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  13. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1911A1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    ...Reasonable is going to be defined by the courts and how they interpret it.
    Yes. That's exactly my point.
    And that's how Scalia screwed up: He left it open to interpretation by some invulnerable judge against whom we have no recourse, rather than closely defining his terms and setting limits for the "reasonable regulation" to which he was pleased to refer.
    Scalia had to win a few leftward-leaning justices to his side. We have a better court now, but Roberts is drifting left.
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  14. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok View Post
    My point is just because they say somethjng doesn’t make it right. It just makes it what they say. It’s quite clear that the people on both the left and the right do not blindly accept what SCOTUS says, and there is not always consistency in their rulings. I think the majority of the country sees SCOTUS as 9 people who were put in place to represent the political views of the POTUs and Senate at the time of their appointment, not the constitution.
    This became a feature of the New Frontier/Great Society.
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    EN MI VIDA AL MAL NO TEMER…, POR QUE EN MI CORAZ”N Y MIS DOS .38 SUPER COLT.

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  15. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    There were people willing to run as Republicans. But it is very difficult if you are not independently wealthy or have the support of the party. And the Republican party held back support from some of the people who did run, including some popular incumbents. Some of those won and some lost. But the VA Republican Party hardly lifted a finger to win this election, which surprised a lot of people. I think if we had known the extent the party was letting us down early enough, more people would have done more independently. Of course, the media did not help. It was barely reported how many Dems were running unopposed, in time for anyone to do anything about it, although I think that qualifies as big news.

    But now that the election is over, the VA GOP is actually harassing its own party members who are supporting the 2A sanctuary movement. There is some indication that some of the pro-gun legislators may not be invited to caucus with the Republicans. We were betrayed by the GOP in VA. I think the incredible support for 2A sanctuaries is partially an indication of outrage over that betrayal.
    I saw some of this while working up there . They'd fight like hell to keep the go along/get along types in office. One indicator of VAGOP impotence or worse was watching Bob McDonald being tried and convicted in the WApo and Ch 7 . The 44 Appointed US Atty had a ready made case, a jury pool heavily influenced and a GOPe that did nothing. except set the stage for Terry McAuliffe. As I was leaving there , I noticed the ever growing numbers of bureaucrats in already overstuffed agencies. The anti-gun attitude flowed through official Fairfax even then right down to the police with younger steroid takers being the worst. Loudon at the time was busy giving speeding tickets near the Redskins training area. to be too involved. With the malignancy metastasizing ,I'd imagine it is worse. The Tea Party was eviscerated by its own success and was co opted nationally (Jeff Flake comes to mind)
    Here , John Bel Obama hasn't made a move yet, he' was narrowly reelected with maybe 2% of the vote. We'll see.
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    EN MI VIDA AL MAL NO TEMER…, POR QUE EN MI CORAZ”N Y MIS DOS .38 SUPER COLT.

    The Totalitarian State in America will not arise at the point of a gun. It will come with a message of

    "We only want what's best for you. It's for your own good."

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