National Guard Reaction? - Page 7

National Guard Reaction?

This is a discussion on National Guard Reaction? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; More than likely the guard units would only be used in support roles like providing security perimeters while state troopers serve the warrants. They may ...

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  1. #91
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    More than likely the guard units would only be used in support roles like providing security perimeters while state troopers serve the warrants.

    They may also provide surveillance assets and intelligence support.

    The feared or fantasized stand off at a fortified residence is the last thing they would want have happen. What they would likely do is gather intelligence on their targets. After obtaining a warrant they would pick a spot on their targets' route to work. While the troopers pull the subject over the guard units would block the intersections in every direction for half a mile. They would also disable cell service in the area of the stop so the subject could not call for assistance.
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  2. #92
    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjolnir View Post
    Still better than violating the Constitution (Fed and State) and Bill of Rights of all.


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    If the executive branch of government, of which LE is a part, refuses to enforce the laws passed by the legislative branch, that is also a violation of the Constitution (either of the US or of the state in question).

    And for that matter, if we want LEO's to exercise such independent judgment, why couldn't they simply ignore the 2A, if they believe it's unjust? The Constitution is part of the law, too; and certainly many have argued that the 2A unjustly prevents the people from passing laws that would save lives. They're wrong, but if a LEO honestly believes they're right, isn't he obligated (by your argument) to ignore the 2A?
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  3. #93
    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok View Post
    What if we just donít pass unjust laws?
    That's the ticket right there.
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  5. #94
    Member Array Mjolnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxwell97 View Post
    If the executive branch of government, of which LE is a part, refuses to enforce the laws passed by the legislative branch, that is also a violation of the Constitution (either of the US or of the state in question).

    And for that matter, if we want LEO's to exercise such independent judgment, why couldn't they simply ignore the 2A, if they believe it's unjust? The Constitution is part of the law, too; and certainly many have argued that the 2A unjustly prevents the people from passing laws that would save lives. They're wrong, but if a LEO honestly believes they're right, isn't he obligated (by your argument) to ignore the 2A?
    At the end of the day you can BLINDLY follow any and all orders.

    You will be treated accordingly.

    This Republican form of government is for moral men; people of character - not SYCOPHANTS.

    There is no two-tiered Justice here (which is NO justice at all).

    For crying out loud how in Hell do people justify ANY & EVERYTHING because itís deemed legal (which is NOT anywhere remotely the same as being LAWFUL). If you donít know the difference get busy.


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  6. #95
    VIP Member Array graydude's Avatar
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    It's a circular argument here with no perfect answer. The reality is some LEOs and NG would enforce anti 2A laws and others wouldn't.

    I prefer not getting to the point we have to find out.
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  7. #96
    VIP Member Array Havok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by graydude View Post
    It's a circular argument here with no perfect answer. The reality is some LEOs and NG would enforce anti 2A laws and others wouldn't.

    I prefer not getting to the point we have to find out.
    This^ if we ever do find out, we will wish we hadnít, despite all the memes every keyboard warrior loves to share on Facebook.
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  8. #97
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    I don't have the proof, but I suspect a huge majority of the National Guard comes from those sanctuary counties and cities. The Democrats will be surprised when their orders to "go get 'em" are ignored.
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  9. #98
    VIP Member Array SouthernBoyVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxwell97 View Post
    If the executive branch of government, of which LE is a part, refuses to enforce the laws passed by the legislative branch, that is also a violation of the Constitution (either of the US or of the state in question).

    And for that matter, if we want LEO's to exercise such independent judgment, why couldn't they simply ignore the 2A, if they believe it's unjust? The Constitution is part of the law, too; and certainly many have argued that the 2A unjustly prevents the people from passing laws that would save lives. They're wrong, but if a LEO honestly believes they're right, isn't he obligated (by your argument) to ignore the 2A?
    Well there is this concept that both the state constitutions and the federal constitution are the supreme law of the land. All else, in terms of law, are subordinate to those documents. So if a governor issues an order that countermands his state constitution, the order is illegal and there is no obligation for his subordinates to obey that order. No different with the military. They swear an oath to the Constitution, not to some person or persons.
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  10. #99
    VIP Member Array graydude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA View Post
    Well there is this concept that both the state constitutions and the federal constitution are the supreme law of the land. All else, in terms of law, are subordinate to those documents. So if a governor issues an order that countermands his state constitution, the order is illegal and there is no obligation for his subordinates to obey that order. No different with the military. They swear an oath to the Constitution, not to some person or persons.
    Yes, but I know many of my fellow leaders are vain and subject to over reacting if/when their orders are challenged. Not following orders (whether or not the right thing to do) could easily end a career and possibly have severe punishment as well.

    Itís a difficult subject we review annually in the military as part of refresher training on the Law of Armed Conflict. Many still donít quite grasp it, and sadly many never will.
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  11. #100
    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mjolnir View Post
    At the end of the day you can BLINDLY follow any and all orders.

    You will be treated accordingly.

    This Republican form of government is for moral men; people of character - not SYCOPHANTS.
    I'm not sure what you mean by "moral men." If men serve the state because they believe it's right to do so - perhaps even acknowledging that the state is sometimes wrong - are they not moral men?
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  12. #101
    VIP Member Array SouthernBoyVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by graydude View Post
    Yes, but I know many of my fellow leaders are vain and subject to over reacting if/when their orders are challenged. Not following orders (whether or not the right thing to do) could easily end a career and possibly have severe punishment as well.

    Itís a difficult subject we review annually in the military as part of refresher training on the Law of Armed Conflict. Many still donít quite grasp it, and sadly many never will.
    Yes, you are correct with this. My post was about constitutional law and how things are supposed to work. Sadly, supposed to and reality have gone in separate directions for many years.
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  13. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    What they would likely do is gather intelligence on their targets. After obtaining a warrant they would pick a spot on their targets' route to work.
    Oh, yeah, sure. That's exactly what law enforcement did in cases like Ruby Ridge and Koresh - wait to catch someone out and about and easy to take down.
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  14. #103
    VIP Member Array SouthernBoyVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by graydude View Post
    Yes, but I know many of my fellow leaders are vain and subject to over reacting if/when their orders are challenged. Not following orders (whether or not the right thing to do) could easily end a career and possibly have severe punishment as well.

    Itís a difficult subject we review annually in the military as part of refresher training on the Law of Armed Conflict. Many still donít quite grasp it, and sadly many never will.
    As a footnote, I used to work for a major defense contractor and we frequently had military on site for training and seminars on software products we were developing (not in my group). I would ask some of them what they thought the military would do if an order was issued to begin private firearms confiscation. To a man they said that some might obey that order but they believed most would not. They added that such an order would not only be an illegal order from the president but also a violation of their oath of service. I thought that was refreshing at the time. This took place during the later part of the 2000's.
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  15. #104
    VIP Member Array SouthernBoyVA's Avatar
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    Oh, another little impediment in the way of our good friends in Richmond [pun intended] is the ex post facto clause which appears in the Virginia and the federal constitutions. Seems our little mindless friends in Richmond didn't think about that one.
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  16. #105
    VIP Member Array graydude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA View Post
    Oh, another little impediment in the way of our good friends in Richmond [pun intended] is the ex post facto clause which appears in the Virginia and the federal constitutions. Seems our little mindless friends in Richmond didn't think about that one.
    I agree, you are correct and that's my reading of the COTUS as well. Sadly, however, the judicial branch didn't apply ex post facto to mandated destruction of bump stocks when lawsuits were raised (IIRC) so I suspect they'll ignore it again.
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