Texas AG calling for change. - Page 4

Texas AG calling for change.

This is a discussion on Texas AG calling for change. within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy Specifically, absolutely nothing. However specifically, nobody else made the shot. None of the other security managed to do so. ...

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  1. #46
    VIP Member Array Havok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy View Post
    Specifically, absolutely nothing. However specifically, nobody else made the shot. None of the other security managed to do so. None of the carriers in the congregation managed to do so.
    So then it is not relevant, which is the point that was being made. He was standing up, drew, aimed and fired his pistol. He effextively employed the most basic fundamentals of shooting that there is. There was nothing “advanced” or “tactical” or anything like that. This shows the importance of mastering the basics. Not the narrative that someone needs to be an LEO, or an fbi agent(yes I know he wasnt) or anything like that.
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  2. #47
    VIP Member Array graydude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    What sets Mr. Wilson apart is that he has taken the time to develop his skill with a pistol well beyond what many consider an acceptable minimum level of competence. He is good with his tool and he understands his abilities to the point he is comfortable making shots under extreme stress many would not even attempt on a good day at the range.

    What made Jack Wilson special was Jack Wilson. Not some special training that the rest of us can't get.
    Quote Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy View Post
    Specifically, absolutely nothing. However specifically, nobody else made the shot. None of the other security managed to do so. None of the carriers in the congregation managed to do so.



    He IS the anomaly. He is the ONLY one who responded in a timely and definitive manner in the congregation.
    A key part in the fast response was Mr. Wikson was paying attention from a security team standpoint. He and the team were already mentally planning, engaged, and watching the shooter when he attacked, while congregants were focused on normal church proceedings (condition white so to speak) so of course they took longer to catch up with what was happening around them.
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  3. #48
    VIP Member Array SouthernBoyVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dangerranger View Post
    I don't think he ment to carry that way, But when you ID a bad actor starting with the gun in hand makes the draw so much faster.DR
    Quote Originally Posted by graydude View Post
    Mods: please pardon an OT post. I'd like a moment to clarify some interfaith misunderstanding and build bridges.

    Whoever says Catholics believe they're the only Christians is speaking personal opinion, not church doctrine. Tell them to read the Catechism and get back to you. Further, the concept of "communion" is vastly different among communities; same word, different things happening.

    [Edited... cut, cut, cut, cut cut... ]

    Here's a good explanation too: http://www.catholicbridge.com/cathol...-communion.php

    I'd be glad to chat more in person on our upcoming Lobby Day drive. Or by PM if anyone has more questions. I've been a Lay Eucharistic Minister for decades under a dozen different priests, so while I'm no expert I've learned a few things.

    Please accept my apologies on behalf of fellow Catholics if their personal opinions, lack of understanding, or ability to explain Church doctrine created friction. Hopefully I can help.

    Mods and DC'ers, thanks for allowing this sidetrack as I realize it skirts the edge. Please PM me if you'd like to discuss further. ...now back to regularly scheduled bickering. :)
    Well let me say that I may stand corrected and if that is so, I am both pleased and relieved. My oldest daughter was baptized in the Catholic church in, I think, 1999. I didn't mean to insult or offend anyone with my post. I was only relating what I had been told by a few people and thought it was crazy.

    So again, if I am mistaken I am happy to be corrected and set straight with this.
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  5. #49
    VIP Member Array CWOUSCG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msgt/ret View Post
    I hope this gains momentum nationwide.



    https://www.foxnews.com/media/texas-...aws-ken-paxton
    Paxton is an idiot. It’s politicians like him who made it illegal in the first place!


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  6. #50
    Senior Member Array Frodebro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy View Post
    The congregation member, Jack Wilson, that shot the bad guy wasn't just a security guard, but was the head of the security team, not to mention the fact that he was a former LEO, firearms instructor, and gun range owner. According to his bio, he is a current TCOLE (Texas Commission On Law Enforcement) instructor and LTC instructor. He appears dressed in a security (leo?) uniform and was wearing a duty belt. Yeah, he was most definitely serving as a security guard and not your ordinary sort of Pa Kettle LTC carrier volunteer security guard, either.
    My point was that the media has downplayed the "ordinary armed civilian" part and spun it to imply that he was there only because he was a security guard tasked with protecting the church. In other words, they don't want people to think that anybody except trained, paid "professionals" should be allowed to carry for the protection of themselves or others.
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  7. #51
    VIP Member Array graydude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA View Post
    Well let me say that I may stand corrected and if that is so, I am both pleased and relieved. My oldest daughter was baptized in the Catholic church in, I think, 1999. I didn't mean to insult or offend anyone with my post. I was only relating what I had been told by a few people and thought it was crazy.

    So again, if I am mistaken I am happy to be corrected and set straight with this.
    What you were told was indeed crazy wrong; that's not on you, it's a reflection of people not critically thinking since they got out of Sunday school decades ago. The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive an well among many of my fellow parishioners, and they spout off on things they shouldn't. Unfortunately, things they say from ignorance of their own church doctrine can be divisive and hurt others in the broader community, creating rifts rather than opening doors. I attempt to clear up those misunderstandings whenever I can, there's enough animosity out there without creating it needlessly.
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  8. #52
    VIP Member Array SouthernBoyVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dangerranger View Post
    I don't think he ment to carry that way, But when you ID a bad actor starting with the gun in hand makes the draw so much faster.DR
    Quote Originally Posted by graydude View Post
    What you were told was indeed crazy wrong; that's not on you, it's a reflection of people not critically thinking since they got out of Sunday school decades ago. The Dunning-Kruger effect is alive an well among many of my fellow parishioners, and they spout off on things they shouldn't. Unfortunately, things they say from ignorance of their own church doctrine can be divisive and hurt others in the broader community, creating rifts rather than opening doors. I attempt to clear up those misunderstandings whenever I can, there's enough animosity out there without creating it needlessly.
    Thanks so much. I am very happy to hear that what I have been told is not the case. One more thing. Could my wife, who is Baptist, take communion in a Catholic church? This is an honest question. I know both of us can take communion in an Episcopal church as we have done this a number of times in the past.
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  9. #53
    VIP Member Array graydude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA View Post
    Thanks so much. I am very happy to hear that what I have been told is not the case. One more thing. Could my wife, who is Baptist, take communion in a Catholic church? This is an honest question. I know both of us can take communion in an Episcopal church as we have done this a number of times in the past.
    PM inbound...
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  10. #54
    Ex Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Here ; you can carry in any Church unless posted. Now, if you have a CC license the sign ... if posted ... has no legal consequences if you ignore it other than if they asked you to leave, and you didn't , you could be charged with trespassing. That's it.

    Before the law changed to that , my pastor asked me why I was not coming to Church, told him due to the signs and why that was an issue to me. When they go down I'll be here . About 3 yrs later saw him in a Mall, and we chatted a bit, and when we went our different says ... he said "I'll see you at Church on Sunday" . It hit me a few steps later, that had a meaning..... behind it. So, I drove by the Church .... no signs posted ..... I was at Church on Sunday. One point he and I talked, and asked what changed his mind ..... he said he found a lot people felt like I did and gave him the same reasons ... and finally convinced him .... we were right.
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  11. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinRohrer View Post
    States do not need to enact laws to instill privileges when we already possess the Right. Government just needs to get out of its own way and let Americans do what the Constitution says.
    My sentiment exactly. The AG prased the law "allowing"... Hm. I hate all "laws" restricting peaceful adult people from possession of whatever they want, as they may use whatever they need to defend themselves and others.
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  12. #56
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Havok View Post
    Specifically, what about this shot was only able to be made because of some sort of advanced training that he received as an LEO or range owner?
    Specifically, absolutely nothing. However specifically, nobody else made the shot. None of the other security managed to do so. None of the carriers in the congregation managed to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    While some in the media are trying to portray Mr. Wilson as being some highly trained anomaly that the congregation was amazing lucky to have there that is simply not supported by facts shown so far. There are literally thousands of people in Texas with those same qualifications.

    What made Jack Wilson special was Jack Wilson. Not some special training that the rest of us can't get.
    He IS the anomaly. He is the ONLY one who responded in a timely and definitive manner in the congregation.

    Really, there are literally THOUSANDS of people in Texas who owned gun range, LTC firearms instructors, TCOLE instructors, and who had TCLEOSE certification (required to be LEO)? I don't think so. Please, show me the facts that support this.

    With that said, you are right, we can all be that way, special. The reality of it is that only a small percentage of folks really are. Few people take the time to get the training. Few people take the time to maintain proficiency. He obviously did both.

    The vast vast majority of gun owners don't get any training beyond hunter safety or whatever is required for their license. Of course, you may not even need "training" if you are just plain good with firearms.

    There are those like Vic Stacy who didn't have any notable training, weren't in the military, weren't cops, were NRA master shooters, weren't firearms instructors who do very well. Vic Stacy, for those of you who don't recall, engaged a man with a rifle who had just killed two people and was attempting to kill a responding LEO. Stacy engaged the shooter with a handgun at something like 150-165 feet and hitting him. Here is the interview with Stacy. He overstates his shooting distance in yards instead of feet. Peach House Trailer Park isn't even 165 wide in the resident section, LOL.

    What does owning a range have to do with skills? Are you saying if I own a music store I can play guitar like Clapton? But Clapton doesn't own a music store. How did he get to be so good? He just spent uncounted hours playing his guitars. That is how he got to be so good.

    Since 2013 to become a CHL (now LTC) instructor a prerequisite is being certified as an instructor by.......TCOLE or DPS PSB, or certain other recognized training group (USCCA, NRA etc.) The only difference in the shooting portion of the test is you must shoot both a revolver and semiautomatic and minimum score is 90% instead of 70%
    Unfortunately DPS is updating their site so I can't link you to the directory, but they annually publish a list (last year was 59 pages long) of instructors who choose to be on the list.

    But holding a license does not magically bestow ability. But if you believe it does TEEX is offering the TCOLE class in College Station in February and for $600 or so you can be licensed too. If you want to get your basic peace officer license you can do that through various community colleges or you can go here for about $1500.
    https://www.fortbendcountytx.gov/gov...-certification
    Classes are available full time and part time.
    But none of those classes will magically make one a great shooter. If they did why do always read about how many shots officers have to fire to hit the bad guy?

    Wilson made the shot that day not because of any card in his wallet. He made it because he spent time on the range (like anyone else can do if they so choose) and he trained. He made that shot because as part of a security team ( at least a minimally competent one) he would have had a plan in place. That plan would include positioning people so they would have safe shooting lanes and defined areas of responsibility. The reason he made the shot no one else did is because it was his shot to take and he had the ability to do it. Once he made the shot there was no reason for anyone else to shoot.
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  13. #57
    Distinguished Member Array Double Naught Spy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    What does owning a range have to do with skills?
    ...
    Wilson made the shot that day not because of any card in his wallet. He made it because he spent time on the range ...
    LOL, you mean like on the range he owned where he was a firearms instructor and had daily access?
    Considering yourself to be defenseless is the first administrative step to becoming a victim.

  14. #58
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    What does owning a range have to do with skills?
    ...
    Wilson made the shot that day not because of any card in his wallet. He made it because he spent time on the range ...
    LOL, you mean like on the range he owned where he was a firearms instructor and had daily access?
    In case you haven't noticed there is not exactly a shortage of public ranges in Texas. I have both indoor and outdoor ranges close to my house than the closest Burger King. I have to drive past them to get to the nearest interstate. That is a whole eight miles from my house. They are both open six days per week. The outdoor range is $20 to shoot all day. Come and go as you please. The indoor range has T-shirt Tuesday. Show up wearing one of their shirts and you shoot for free. There are places with deals like that all over if you care to look for them.

    And, there is a whole lot of Texas where the closest range is outside the back door.

    If one is truly motivated, range access is not an issue. However if you are not, it can be a convenient excuse.
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  15. #59
    New Member Array Iljunglebob's Avatar
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    What has changed in Texas Law?

    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    I feel so blessed to have been able to move to Texas. Our church has a police officer in front, and I know for a fact, numerous armed congregants to back him up.
    What has changed about Texas law regarding church carry. I read one person saying it has been legal since 1995 or 1997 and a legislator saying that they introduced the bill after the Southerland church shooting because Texas law was "clunky" in this regard what changed in the law?

    I'm glad for Texas that they are a state, just like Illinois, that allows carry in churches unless they post. I'm part of our church security team and I carry at church, as does at least one other and at least a couple church members not on the security team.

    After reading about the White Settlement church incident I'm definately going to offer to take someones long coat if they have a fake beard or hair piece.

    So can anyone here enlighten me about changes in Texas handgun law?

    BTW I was going to start topic on this but couldn't figure out how? I find no START NEW TOPIC tab.
    [/B]

  16. #60
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Places of worship had been on the list of "prohibited places" previously. That has evolved over time. Most recently it was prohibited unless you had specific authorization. Now it is allowed like any private property unless you are given "effective notice" that it is not allowed.
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