The 2nd Amendment, being Meaningless, should be Amended - Page 3

The 2nd Amendment, being Meaningless, should be Amended

This is a discussion on The 2nd Amendment, being Meaningless, should be Amended within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Frodebro Thread title changed, agenda revealed. In response to comments. Your own agenda is now revealed to be an annoyance....

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Thread: The 2nd Amendment, being Meaningless, should be Amended

  1. #31
    Ex Member Array yofiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frodebro View Post
    Thread title changed, agenda revealed.
    In response to comments. Your own agenda is now revealed to be an annoyance.

  2. #32
    VIP Member Array ColoradoDiablo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yofiel View Post
    Because that's what Locke said. You clipped out the word LOCKE. Locke's opinion was that people would so much hate the very notion of shooting someone else, if they actually were given the option, that they could be trusted to be responsible with them. That rather turned out not to be true, however it was an opinion not based on empriical observation, so it doesn't have any bearing on the implementation of his thought in Jeffersonian natural rights.
    Please provide the source where Locke specifically mentioned what you referred to...I'll hold my breath...
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by yofiel View Post
    Seems to me, sir, you just want to duck social responsibility for innnocent deaths by guns and pretend they dont happen. And you doidnt read anything i wrote AT ALL. Could you please talk to yourself somewhere else.
    With all due respect, ColoradoDiablo was been posting on this forum for quite a while.
    Someone who just shows up today and tells one of us to go away is crossing the line, and showing that they canít defend their argument
    I stated before that I thought you were and educated man, but I believe you are not very smart.
    Thanks for changing your post title. It does explain a lot of where you are coming from

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  5. #34
    Senior Member Array Frodebro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yofiel View Post
    OK. I asked for opinions ON AN ARTICLE. Well you are a total doik who cannot read more than four words of the first sentence before shooting your mouth off. That's my opinion of you. Kindly go away.
    Okay, I'll step up and respond to this. My opinion is that you're coming from a purely emotional place in regard to the topic, and have focused your efforts solely on supporting your beliefs instead of taking the time to educate yourself on the entire subject.

  6. #35
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    Bye-bye.
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  7. #36
    Senior Member Array Frodebro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yofiel View Post
    In response to comments. Your own agenda is now revealed to be an annoyance.
    Need a tissue?
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  8. #37
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    Hey @yofiel aka Alfredo Zubillaga, are you even a United States Citizen? From my quick research you live in Mexico...
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  9. #38
    Senior Member Array Frodebro's Avatar
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    And... We're done here.
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  10. #39
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    That was an exercise in stupidity. Alfredo Zubillaga is from Mexico and his article is nothing more than opinion cloaked as an academic exercise.

    It didn't take long to figure out who he was and where he lived.
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  11. #40
    Senior Member Array Frodebro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColoradoDiablo View Post
    That was an exercise in stupidity. Alfredo Zubillaga is from Mexico and his article is nothing more than opinion cloaked as an academic exercise.

    It didn't take long to figure out who he was and where he lived.
    Credit for having the gumption to enter the lion's den to argue his points, three demerits for entering the cave unarmed.

  12. #41
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    Perhaps Alfredo should spend his time fixing his own country which has more brutal violence than the USA.
    But I do not believe he has the testicular fortitude to engage the cartels in a academic discussion about gun violence
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  13. #42
    VIP Member Array ColoradoDiablo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KILTED COWBOY View Post
    Perhaps Alfredo should spend his time fixing his own country which has more brutal violence than the USA.
    But I do not believe he has the testicular fortitude to engage the cartels in a academic discussion about gun violence
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  14. #43
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    I always miss this...errr....stuff.
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  15. #44
    Senior Member Array Frodebro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post


    I always miss this...errr....stuff.
    Seen one, you've seen them all. They only have one script to share amongst themselves, and once the discussion veers away from it they're lost.

  16. #45
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    Here is my belief about the Constitution and the BOR: It was not primarily written for the intellectual consumption and interpretation of scholars, lawyers, judges and justices. If it had been, it would have been a lot longer document and written in a much more academic and legalistic fashion. The people who wrote those documents were learned men, well capable of doing that if that was what they wanted to do.

    The intended audience was the people, the common man. So the only way to interpret the documents is in light of that. They mean exactly what they say, in plain English, taking into account what the words meant when they were written, not the common vernacular today. They need little interpretation, certainly not all the interpretation they have had over the years. 2A is simple:

    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State..." This is the justification clause, as explained in the Heller decision, not a limitation clause. "Militia" means groups of able-bodied citizens, who protect their towns, colonies, states and sometimes allowed themselves to be nationalized to serve a central government, but they were not professional soldiers, they were common people. "Well regulated" in the 18th century meant well-organized, well-armed, well-disciplined. It didn't mean "under the orders and restriction of the government." It meant it was in an effective shape to fight. But again, that is just a justification, not the right itself.

    "...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." That is the operative clause and it could not be clearer. The government shall not restrict the right of citizens to keep and bear arms, period. There is no wiggle room there.

    People bring up a lot of red herrings about 2A, such as slavery, the idea that we may no longer need militias, The Militia Act of 1903, etc. But none of that has the leverage to change or nullify an amendment to the Constitution. That can only be done through an Article V proceeding.

    So that's it. There is no other valid argument to be made. Any restriction on the RTKABA is unconstitutional. And as has been said, the Constitution doesn't grant that right, it was just meant to guarantee it. The idea is we always had that right, with or without the Constitution and BOR, and we always will. People may violate that right, but we may take it back.
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