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A Well Regulated Militia

This is a discussion on A Well Regulated Militia within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Econ101 This was just an idea to keep the mass shooting issue in the realm of public policy by giving Congress an ...

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Thread: A Well Regulated Militia

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array SouthernBoyVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Econ101 View Post
    This was just an idea to keep the mass shooting issue in the realm of public policy by giving Congress an off ramp and a way to redeem themselves without accepting any blame. But, I really believe it's a civil rights issue:

    https://www.defensivecarry.com/forum...g-problem.html
    Excellent write-up. Don't know how I missed it. The only part I have a problem with is the race part. I am so sick and tired of hearing race brought into just about anything by people who believe they have much to gain by doing this. One of the things that most people miss is that the right to keep and bear arms IS a real civil rights issue, no different than freedom of speech and religion.

    But you still wrote a well thought out and well worded piece of text.
    Marc_Brooks likes this.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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  2. #32
    Member Array oldIthink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retired badge 1 View Post
    First, I would submit that the use of the words "well regulated" refers to a governmental mandate, not an individual responsibility. The fact that our government has failed to properly organize, drill, or train the popular militia reflects only on a failure of our government, not a failure of any citizen.

    Second, those who wish to argue about what the militia is, or what the militia is not, should start with the Militia Clause of the United States Constitution, then the operative portions of the Militia Act contained in Title 10, United States Code. One might also read the constitution and statutes of the individual states, most of which contain comparable bedrock law.

    Once that basic research has been done, objectively there can be no argument against the fact that the militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied male residents over the age of 17 and under the age of 45. This has long been the underlying law supporting Selective Service (still a legal requirement for all adult males). Looking further, we find that there have been federal statutes and constitutional amendments prohibiting discrimination on the basis of age, gender, or disabilities; thus the militia must consist of all adult men and women residing within the United States. The only exceptions provided by law are for certain persons of religious scruples, certain disqualifying mental conditions, those having felony convictions, etc.

    We have arrived at a clear understanding of what is known as the Popular Militia, those subject to call in times of need to defend our nation against invasion or insurrection. In addition to the Popular Militia we have the Select Militia, consisting of those who have been selected, appointed, or elected to serve in a full or part-time capacity, including state militias (National Guard, state police agencies, etc) and local law enforcement officers, as well as inactive reserve members of the armed forces.

    Standing armies are expressly forbidden by Constitution and statutes. Military appropriations may not be committed for any period longer than two years.

    Like it or not, if you are an adult resident of the United States and not excluded specifically by law you are a member of the Militia of the United States. Whether or not your government has provided an organizational effort, regular training or drills, or even bothered to notify you of your duties under the law there is no escaping these basic facts.
    This is a good argument, but it lacks one thing; precedent. Your first paragraph spells it out and that's the problem. The intent of the militia clause might have been different seeing as how the government, to my knowledge, has never called on, trained, or acted upon in any fashion, a militia. Some argue the National Guard is the militia. I don't think that's true because they limit the number, type, and until recently, gender of participants and they are not governed by civilians chosen to be leaders.

    The framers were genus, but they could not tell the future. They could not foresee how convoluted society would become.

  3. #33
    New Member Array Doug1943's Avatar
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    A very good suggestion. Add some extra training for such people -- an 'active shooter' simulation, with instant-choice scenarios where you must NOT shoot -- and it might have a chance of passing.

    Pro-2A people tend to play defense too much. We've got to show we ARE concerned about the 'armed maniac' situation, and not just throw up statistics, which no one who is not already pro-2A is going to believe anyway. We have to make counter-proposals, and force our opponents to argue against them.
    oldIthink, Econ101 and geo.ulrich like this.

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  5. #34
    Senior Member Array retired badge 1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldIthink View Post
    This is a good argument, but it lacks one thing; precedent. Your first paragraph spells it out and that's the problem. The intent of the militia clause might have been different seeing as how the government, to my knowledge, has never called on, trained, or acted upon in any fashion, a militia. Some argue the National Guard is the militia. I don't think that's true because they limit the number, type, and until recently, gender of participants and they are not governed by civilians chosen to be leaders.

    The framers were genus, but they could not tell the future. They could not foresee how convoluted society would become.
    The popular militia was called into service and actively deployed as recently as 1945 in both California and Alaska, perhaps elsewhere. Native Aleutians engaged Japanese Naval Infantry and caused their retreat. California citizens responded to the call for patrols and observation posts along the coastline. In both Florida and at least one other east coast state (my old memory isn't as functional as it might once have been) local militia patrols interdicted and captured German saboteurs with both small arms and explosives.

    At least one historic incident involving crooked local politicians rigging an election was resolved by local citizens who commandeered a National Guard armory for the means to put a stop to overt government tyranny on a local level (pretty good short movie about that, if I could just remember the title), time period post-WW2 late 1940's to early 1950's. By the way, all weapons were returned to the NG armory, properly cleaned, and the armory was properly secured just as soon as the crooks were locked up or run out of town and the ballot boxes were properly secured.

    I am sure there are many such incidents in the historical record, and the research would make a good project for a scholar (which I do not pretend to be).

    The fact remains that we are a government of the people, by the people, for the people. Our government has no inherent or assumed powers or authorities except those that we, the people, have delegated to our elected and appointed representatives. Our government consists of our servants, not our rulers or our masters. That is the message that must be repeated, again and again, until it is fully understood.
    Merovius likes this.

  6. #35
    VIP Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    The incident is called the Battle of Athens and was triggered by voter fraud.
    "...as politics in Washington and elsewhere grows increasingly un-moored from reality, humanist wisdom provides us with one final consolation: There is no greater lesson from the past than the intractability of human folly." Heather Mac Donald

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array SouthernBoyVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldIthink View Post
    This is a good argument, but it lacks one thing; precedent. Your first paragraph spells it out and that's the problem. The intent of the militia clause might have been different seeing as how the government, to my knowledge, has never called on, trained, or acted upon in any fashion, a militia. Some argue the National Guard is the militia. I don't think that's true because they limit the number, type, and until recently, gender of participants and they are not governed by civilians chosen to be leaders.

    The framers were genus, but they could not tell the future. They could not foresee how convoluted society would become.
    I may have to beg to differ a little with this. It is true that very few can tell the future, but the Framers were very skeptical about the future of their new country and new system. Jefferson. Franklin, Hamilton, Henry, Mason and other worried about what may come of their new design after they were all gone. They well knew the temptations of something like they had created and this was a very real concern with them.

    The driving force of our system comes from those who remember the past and apply it to the present and the future. Without them, there is a very real possibility of it all getting lost to history.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    America First!

  8. #37
    Member Array Econ101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA View Post
    Excellent write-up. Don't know how I missed it. The only part I have a problem with is the race part. I am so sick and tired of hearing race brought into just about anything by people who believe they have much to gain by doing this. One of the things that most people miss is that the right to keep and bear arms IS a real civil rights issue, no different than freedom of speech and religion.

    But you still wrote a well thought out and well worded piece of text.
    Thanks. I'm sick of the race stuff, too. But, the Left will keep doing it and the media will keep letting them get away with it until we turn the tables on them and set the record straight. That's what the strategy you referenced is all about.

    https://www.defensivecarry.com/forum...g-problem.html

  9. #38
    Member Array DavesYourUncle's Avatar
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    Well-regulated, as in managed and functioning efficiently and effectively, like a well-regulated timepiece. It does NOT mean having a bunch of restrictive regulations imposed upon it, which is apparently the Democrat interpretation.

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