A Well Regulated Militia

A Well Regulated Militia

This is a discussion on A Well Regulated Militia within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; As Flight 93 proved, American citizens willing to take action can be effective at counteracting terrorist attacks. And they don't cost anything. Since teachers are ...

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    Ex Member Array Econ101's Avatar
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    A Well Regulated Militia

    As Flight 93 proved, American citizens willing to take action can be effective at counteracting terrorist attacks. And they don't cost anything. Since teachers are among the most regulated individuals in the country and the same can be said of concealed carry permit holders, the intersection of those two groups could be called "a well regulated Militia". Why not formalize that designation and empower them to provide an armed response if necessary, like air marshals on a plane, anywhere in the country with the possible exception of heavily guarded government facilities? And why not add doctors, lawyers, and other licensed professionals to the mix?

    Considering the ongoing risks of terrorism, President Trump should use the State of the Union address to urge Congress to protect the lives of their constituents by passing such legislation. This would give them a face saving way to make up for the Gun Free School Zones act which has led to so much death, catastrophic injury and psychological trauma since they voted for it - not to mention all the time and money wasted trying to counteract its disastrous consequences.

    It would be a chance for Democrats to prove they care more about our nation's security and sovereignty than the globalist agenda. And it would also be a chance for President Trump to prove they don't. In other words: a no lose challenge and a teachable moment for the nation.

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    He campaigned on getting rid of gun free zones and hasn’t mentioned it since. I don’t think he has any desire to get rid of gun free zones. He just wanted the vote. Another thing is, Democrats, particularly House Democrats are not at all concerned with what we think. They are concerned with what their voters think, and if their voters are anti gun, which they are, they don’t care how they appear to us.
    a poor plan that is well executed will produce better results that a good plan that is poorly executed.

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    Econ101, from my readings on the 2A, the term "well regulated" had a bit of a different meaning at the time the Constitution was written. My understanding was that "well regulated" referred to people who were well trained and who performed in an orderly manner, not necessarily to people who had to live with a bunch of regulations.

    The phrase "well-regulated" was in common use long before 1789, and remained so for a century thereafter. It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected. Establishing government oversight of the people's arms was not only not the intent in using the phrase in the 2nd amendment, it was precisely to render the government powerless to do so that the founders wrote it.

    https://constitution.org/cons/wellregu.htm
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    The "Well Regulated Militia" idea works more against gun rights than for it. The left is always saying that anyone who is not in a "Well Regulated Militia" is not protected by 2A and has no RTKABA.To them, "Well Regulated" means "under government control," and "Militia" means "agents of the state." The protestations those were not the original meanings of those terms falls on deaf ears.

    In 2013, TSA proposed, on their own, to allow passengers to have small knives onboard, with blades no more the 2.36" in length and 0.5" side. Flight attendants, air marshals, the public and politicians formally protested, so TSA dropped the idea, even though their risk assessment was that the little knives were not a threat.

    Given that, how do you think there is any chance at all that such a proposal would see the light of day? And the Democrats don't care at all about our nation's security and sovereignty. They are all about the globalist agenda. And they have no desire to prove that wrong. There is no need for Trump, or anyone else to demonstrate that. The do it all on their own.
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    Quote Originally Posted by G26Raven View Post
    Econ101, from my readings on the 2A, the term "well regulated" had a bit of a different meaning at the time the Constitution was written. My understanding was that "well regulated" referred to people who were well trained and who performed in an orderly manner, not necessarily to people who had to live with a bunch of regulations.

    The phrase "well-regulated" was in common use long before 1789, and remained so for a century thereafter. It referred to the property of something being in proper working order. Something that was well-regulated was calibrated correctly, functioning as expected. Establishing government oversight of the people's arms was not only not the intent in using the phrase in the 2nd amendment, it was precisely to render the government powerless to do so that the founders wrote it.

    https://constitution.org/cons/wellregu.htm
    The term "well regulated" at the time of its inclusion in the Bill of Rights meant "to keep and make regular" according to a judge who is best described as a Constitutionalist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok
    I don’t think he has any desire to get rid of gun free zones. He just wanted the vote.
    More likely, he got schooled by reality. You need 218 votes in the House and 60 in the Senate. If you don't have that, you're just wasting your time and expending political capital for nothing. In this polarized environment, pretty much all highly controversial legislation is DOA. And gun legislation, both pro and anti, is highly controversial.
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    That would raise Bloomberg's blood pressure
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talldog View Post
    More likely, he got schooled by reality. You need 218 votes in the House and 60 in the Senate. If you don't have that, you're just wasting your time and expending political capital for nothing. In this polarized environment, pretty much all highly controversial legislation is DOA. And gun legislation, both pro and anti, is highly controversial.
    Who cares if it’s highly controversial? Grow a pair and push for it, over and over and over again until it passes. You think the left cares what is “highly controversial”?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly2 View Post
    That would raise Bloomberg's blood pressure
    Good!
    a poor plan that is well executed will produce better results that a good plan that is poorly executed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Econ101 View Post
    As Flight 93 proved, American citizens willing to take action can be effective at counteracting terrorist attacks. And they don't cost anything. Since teachers are among the most regulated individuals in the country and the same can be said of concealed carry permit holders, the intersection of those two groups could be called "a well regulated Militia". Why not formalize that designation and empower them to provide an armed response if necessary, like air marshals on a plane, anywhere in the country with the possible exception of heavily guarded government facilities? And why not add doctors, lawyers, and other licensed professionals to the mix?

    Considering the ongoing risks of terrorism, President Trump should use the State of the Union address to urge Congress to protect the lives of their constituents by passing such legislation. This would give them a face saving way to make up for the Gun Free School Zones act which has led to so much death, catastrophic injury and psychological trauma since they voted for it - not to mention all the time and money wasted trying to counteract its disastrous consequences.

    It would be a chance for Democrats to prove they care more about our nation's security and sovereignty than the globalist agenda. And it would also be a chance for President Trump to prove they don't. In other words: a no lose challenge and a teachable moment for the nation.
    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    Read Heller, https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/07-290.ZO.html Pay attention to Section II.A.1.a, where Scalia writes about the operative clause and "people." Also read about the prefatory clause and why the operative clause is what instills the individual right.

    Your proposal would actually be a leap - not a step - backwards in 2A jurisprudence.

    As for "licensed" professionals being affording some "regulated militia" status - do you really think that dentists, lawyers, electricians, make up artists, dieticians, and cosmetologists should be afforded some special carry status just because they have a licensing requirement for their job? Seriously?
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    As a teacher and one who carries, they should just get rid of gun free zones and that would cover the same thing.

    Not to hijack, but another consideration of some such as myself: Do we want to be responsible for the safety of students in that capacity? I take full and total responsibility for my family, after that I am not sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJon10125 View Post
    As a teacher and one who carries, they should just get rid of gun free zones and that would cover the same thing.

    Not to hijack, but another consideration of some such as myself: Do we want to be responsible for the safety of students in that capacity? I take full and total responsibility for my family, after that I am not sure.
    I'm not a cop and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night but if I'm armed and can intervene without putting my family in jeopardy I will and I would hope anyone who carries would as well.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Econ101 View Post
    As Flight 93 proved, American citizens willing to take action can be effective at counteracting terrorist attacks. And they don't cost anything. Since teachers are among the most regulated individuals in the country and the same can be said of concealed carry permit holders, the intersection of those two groups could be called "a well regulated Militia". Why not formalize that designation and empower them to provide an armed response if necessary, like air marshals on a plane, anywhere in the country with the possible exception of heavily guarded government facilities?
    The teaching profession is also probably the most heavily socialist/communist indoctrinated segment of the population. Certainly not all, but a huge percentage of college level staff are not worth the gunpowder it would take to blow them up. Someone would have to do extensive interviewing to determine which ones actually even recognize America as a Constitutional Republic.

    And why not add doctors, lawyers, and other licensed professionals to the mix?
    NO...NO...NO! The AMA leads the charge to disarm American citizens. Lawyers??? You are kidding right?

    Considering the ongoing risks of terrorism, President Trump should use the State of the Union address to urge Congress to protect the lives of their constituents by passing such legislation. This would give them a face saving way to make up for the Gun Free School Zones act which has led to so much death, catastrophic injury and psychological trauma since they voted for it - not to mention all the time and money wasted trying to counteract its disastrous consequences.

    It would be a chance for Democrats to prove they care more about our nation's security and sovereignty than the globalist agenda.
    Now I'm certain that you're pulling our collective legs. The 2nd Amendment spells out all the requirements the founding fathers, in their wisdom, laid out for a militia: "the people". That is not hard to understand. WE ARE THE PEOPLE. YOU AND I.

    And just a hint. Professional licensing in no way guarantees the person so licensed has a lick of common sense. Remember that when someone with a state-issued driver's license gets a snootfull, drives the wrong way on the highway, and crashes into you. Also take note that even plumbers and beauticians are licensed. No, I'll just trust you and I to fill the ranks.

    Just a well-informed opinion. I also want to comment on the shop-worn phrase "expending political capital" for a moment. Let's get real. We are way, way past the era when political capital meant anything. The only important thing to politicians is cash - pure green cash along with threats of their impending unemployment. Money? Now that is political capital that talks. The rest is now bovine in nature, and we all know the old saying, "Money talks...Cow leavings walks."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talldog View Post
    More likely, he got schooled by reality. You need 218 votes in the House and 60 in the Senate. If you don't have that, you're just wasting your time and expending political capital for nothing. In this polarized environment, pretty much all highly controversial legislation is DOA. And gun legislation, both pro and anti, is highly controversial.
    And it goes to show you that a lot of politicians don't consider the reality of human behavior. In other words, the reality is that they don't understand that all these laws, especially bans, won't stop criminal or insane acts.
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    Why do people propose and debate hypothetical, crazy-arsed proposals when we are actively fighting against actual, imminent, even more crazy-arsed proposals? This not the time for facetious intellectual exercises. This is a time for saying what we are really going to do to resolve our current, rather desperate, situation.

    And the time for saying, "2A is all we need" and chanting "shall not be infringed" is past. 2A is wonderful. But it ain't gettin' it done right now and the courts have not stepped up, so they may not do so for a while, if ever. This is a bit of a rant, I apologize, but with Lobby Day coming up, the tinfoil hat solutions are just oozing out of the woodwork. Every minute we spend worrying about stuff that will not work is a minute we are not focusing on stuff that might work. And I fully admit this post is an ironic example of what I am complaining about. But I'm getting at my wits' end...
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