I wish this were fake news, but he really did this - Page 5

I wish this were fake news, but he really did this

This is a discussion on I wish this were fake news, but he really did this within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by maxwell97 The difference between offend and intimidate is in context. In this context, even if the actions weren't intended to intimidate, it's ...

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Thread: I wish this were fake news, but he really did this

  1. #61
    VIP Member Array Havok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxwell97 View Post
    The difference between offend and intimidate is in context. In this context, even if the actions weren't intended to intimidate, it's certainly reasonable to believe that they were. This is something that protestors need to be conscious of.
    People like him need a little intimidation in their lives.
    a poor plan that is well executed will produce better results that a good plan that is poorly executed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Merovius View Post
    Well, matters seem to be escalating here in Virginia. And this time, it doesn't play well for the gun rights side.
    https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...-home/2219266/

    It took 20.000 plus peaceful citizens gathering in Richmond to create some measure of good will with the public, to show the media coverage to be politically biased nonsense, and to make all of the Democratic alarmist reactions look unfounded. It took one imbecile with a tactical shotgun to undo all of that. What, if anything, was this guy thinking? Did he seriously believe for an instant that this stunt would work?

    Tactical blunders like this, which play right into the opposition's hands, will lose this fight if we aren't careful. Whatever you or I may believe concerning this man's rights both to bear arms in public and to protest on public land, the optics on this go one way, and one way only - This was an act of intimidation; Armed intimidation. That's the way the undecideds and the folks with no skin in this game are going to look at it. Our cause doesn't need "help" from people like this, taking actions like this. This was foolishness, and he's lucky the laws are technically on his side. But just because an action is legal doesn't make it right or wise.
    We're going to go into a panic over one "bozo"?
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  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by KILTED COWBOY View Post
    We had an idiot a few years ago who protested in front of the home of the Texas house speaker Bonnen who is a typical swamp rat.
    But anyway it finished off any chance of having Constitutional Carry brought to the floor that session.
    On the other hand, the gun grabbers get to intimidate the politicians and private citizens at will and no one bats an eye, it is actually encouraged.
    But let a few Gun Rights folks do the same and all hell breaks loose.
    Except that the Bonnen story as told my the anti side was not how it happened.
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  6. #65
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    but did anyone catch this part?

    Levine said that if what happened Saturday is not a crime, he will seek legislation next year to make it one.

    "If it's not illegal, I'm going to be damned sure by next year it is illegal," he said.

    ^^^THAT is the very definition of tyranny IMO...
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  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by KILTED COWBOY View Post
    We had an idiot a few years ago who protested in front of the home of the Texas house speaker Bonnen who is a typical swamp rat.
    But anyway it finished off any chance of having Constitutional Carry brought to the floor that session.

    On the other hand, the gun grabbers get to intimidate the politicians and private citizens at will and no one bats an eye, it is actually encouraged.
    But let a few Gun Rights folks do the same and all hell breaks loose.
    The story Bonnen told was proven to be a lie. Constitutional carry was already dead, unofficially. Like I said in my other post, Mcnutt, who went to Bonnens house, did us all a favor. An overwhelming amount of negative attention was brought on him as well as anyone in texas politics who considers him a friend. Both Dennis Bonnen, and Poncho Nevarez, who was in charge of the committee the constitutional carry bill was sent to, are done in Texas politics as of this election.
    a poor plan that is well executed will produce better results that a good plan that is poorly executed.

    This is America. I have the right to go places. You have the right to stay home. You have the right to be upset about me going places. I have the right to not care.

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I have no problem intimidating or offending those who seek to do me harm.
    The problem is that the politician is not the problem, it's the people who voted for him, and those who may or may not vote for other people like him in the future. When someone tries to intimidate an elected official, it creates sympathy for him and anger against the intimidator. It puts liberty at greater risk.

    Now, one guy is one guy, and doesn't paint the pro-gun side alone. What's far more dangerous is what I'm seeing here, where some are defending him, not because they think it was really a peaceful protest, but because they think it was intimidation, and they approve. If that's what our side becomes, it will certainly lose.
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  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxwell97 View Post
    The problem is that the politician is not the problem, it's the people who voted for him, and those who may or may not vote for other people like him in the future. When someone tries to intimidate an elected official, it creates sympathy for him and anger against the intimidator. It puts liberty at greater risk.

    Now, one guy is one guy, and doesn't paint the pro-gun side alone. What's far more dangerous is what I'm seeing here, where some are defending him, not because they think it was really a peaceful protest, but because they think it was intimidation, and they approve. If that's what our side becomes, it will certainly lose.
    If we continue to play by rules laid out by our opposition, I posit that we will also lose.

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    And people thought I was a trouble maker by not giving ID to police during a consensual stop LOL.

    Funny how attitudes change.

  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osprey View Post
    And people thought I was a trouble maker by not giving ID to police during a consensual stop LOL.

    Funny how attitudes change.
    During the infancy of the open carry movement in Michigan there were some folks who engaged in what was called "sterile carry". Openly carrying a gun with absolutely no ID on their person what so ever. And yes, that is legal in Michigan as long as the laws concerning carrying/possessing a gun without a carry permit are observed.

    Those folks were confronted by police and the police got an education about the actual law.
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  12. #71
    Senior Member Array Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demanic View Post
    Originally Posted by maxwell97 View Post
    The problem is that the politician is not the problem, it's the people who voted for him, and those who may or may not vote for other people like him in the future. When someone tries to intimidate an elected official, it creates sympathy for him and anger against the intimidator. It puts liberty at greater risk.

    Now, one guy is one guy, and doesn't paint the pro-gun side alone. What's far more dangerous is what I'm seeing here, where some are defending him, not because they think it was really a peaceful protest, but because they think it was intimidation, and they approve. If that's what our side becomes, it will certainly lose.
    If we continue to play by rules laid out by our opposition, I posit that we will also lose.

    Sent from my Alcatel_5044C using Tapatalk
    We have been playing by the rules set by the opposition for decades and that is how we got where we are now. Pavlovian conditioned to not rock the boat under the threat of even more opposition if we dare rock that boat. The thing is even when we don't rock the boat the opposition is still drilling holes in the bottom of the boat and the right to bear arms is (slowly) sinking.

    The anti gunners win because the gun community hopes to avoid great big gun control by appeasing with not fervently fighting little bits of gun control. The thing is, and I should not have to point this out, all those little bits of gun control we didn't fight in fear of getting big gun control has added up to................. the great big gun control we have now.

    And what we are seeing in Virginia is just how much we have emboldened the opposition with our decades of fear of rocking the boat.
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    Unfortunately there are many gun owners who will still shop at Wal Mart even though they know Wal Mart partnered with Everytown for Gun Safety just because it is convenient and they can save a few bucks.

  13. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxwell97 View Post
    The problem is that the politician is not the problem, it's the people who voted for him, and those who may or may not vote for other people like him in the future. When someone tries to intimidate an elected official, it creates sympathy for him and anger against the intimidator. It puts liberty at greater risk.

    Now, one guy is one guy, and doesn't paint the pro-gun side alone. What's far more dangerous is what I'm seeing here, where some are defending him, not because they think it was really a peaceful protest, but because they think it was intimidation, and they approve. If that's what our side becomes, it will certainly lose.
    No, the guy who is doing harm is the problem, not the mechanism that got him in a position to do so.
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  14. #73
    VIP Member Array Havok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxwell97 View Post
    The problem is that the politician is not the problem, it's the people who voted for him, and those who may or may not vote for other people like him in the future. When someone tries to intimidate an elected official, it creates sympathy for him and anger against the intimidator. It puts liberty at greater risk.

    Now, one guy is one guy, and doesn't paint the pro-gun side alone. What's far more dangerous is what I'm seeing here, where some are defending him, not because they think it was really a peaceful protest, but because they think it was intimidation, and they approve. If that's what our side becomes, it will certainly lose.
    This is what the left wants, because it makes life easy for them. Your mindset is not solving the problem. It is helping it. What the “protestor” did does not put liberty at risk. The gun control Levine supports puts liberty at risk. Yes, what you’re seeing here, the support for him is more dangerous. That is the whole point of 2A. You say if this is what our side becomes it will lose, but we are currently losing and have been for a long time. That is the reason people are going to more extreme tactics which are known to work.
    a poor plan that is well executed will produce better results that a good plan that is poorly executed.

    This is America. I have the right to go places. You have the right to stay home. You have the right to be upset about me going places. I have the right to not care.

  15. #74
    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demanic View Post
    If we continue to play by rules laid out by our opposition, I posit that we will also lose.
    The rule of "don't use weapons to intimidate elected officials you don't like" was not laid out by our opposition, but by reason, decency, the principle of rule of law, and the traditions of self-government. If we give those things up, there is no value whatsoever in keeping our firearms.
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  16. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxwell97 View Post
    The rule of "don't use weapons to intimidate elected officials you don't like" was not laid out by our opposition, but by reason, decency, the principle of rule of law, and the traditions of self-government. If we give those things up, there is no value whatsoever in keeping our firearms.
    Those are values which our opposition do not hold. But they count on us acting according to them and they use that against us.
    I do not believe in letting my adversaries use my values against me.

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