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@OldChap: I appreciate your response, thanks. Your answers to my questions actually support some of my points.
  • Yes, there have been sheriffs who have said they will not enforce gun laws. But to my knowledge, that has not been tested and that was not my question. My question was has any rank and file police officer actually refused an unconstitutional order?There have been thousands of red flag and other confiscation orders enforced and I have never heard of a LEO refusing to carry one out. Not a single one.
  • We agree that the feds can do anything they want. They are supposed to work for us, but they clearly do not recognize that. I think their failure to do anything about the riots actually supports my point. Putting down the riots, instead of just watching, is actually something they should do, something most people want them to do, but they are not doing because of politics. That does not mean they couldn't, it means they do what they are told by their lefty leadership because they want to keep their jobs. I'm sure they hate it and would like to do otherwise, but they don't. I think they will be forced to do the same, obey lefty orders, when confiscation time comes. If they don't they will be replaced by someone who will, or state or federal resources.
You seem to imply that I am being anti-cop or defeatist here. It is the opposite. As a gun rights activist, I try to educate people and get them to see the situation realistically, so they will be encouraged to take realistic actions. Cops are heroes to me and always will be. But I think we are putting unreasonable expectations on them to think they will bail us out of bad political decisions. We can't afford to relax, thinking disobedient cops will solve the problems for us. I am not saying you implied we relax, I'm just saying where I am coming from.

We also can't underestimate the potential opposition, which I see to be a government under liberal control. Government and politicians may be inept in a lot of ways, but if they really put their mind to some oppression, they can find a way to do it. I also think we can't afford to relax, thinking COTUS, the BOR, SCOTUS or government incompetence will save us. We have to get active, now. And sadly, I don't see that happening much.
 

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@OldChap: I appreciate your response, thanks. Your answers to my questions actually support some of my points.

Yes, there have been sheriffs who have said they will not enforce gun laws. But to my knowledge, that has not been tested and that was not my question. My question was has any rank and file police officer actually refused an unconstitutional order?There have been thousands of red flag and other confiscation orders enforced and I have never heard of a LEO refusing to carry one out. Not a single one.
Don't you think they mean what they said? You said...

Where have LEOs actually refused to enforce unconstitutional gun laws so far? It seems to me like they are going like gangbusters with red flag with no defections.
The answer is THEY HAVE. You think they were bluffing? Or maybe lying so they could get reelected? You're splitting hairs. The reality is that the politicians have not tested their resolve. You think those politicians might know something you don't?

We agree that the feds can do anything they want. They are supposed to work for us, but they clearly do not recognize that. I think their failure to do anything about the riots actually supports my point. Putting down the riots, instead of just watching, is actually something they should do, something most people want them to do, but they are not doing because of politics. That does not mean they couldn't, it means they do what they are told by their lefty leadership because they want to keep their jobs. I'm sure they hate it and would like to do otherwise, but they don't. I think they will be forced to do the same, obey lefty orders, when confiscation time comes. If they don't they will be replaced by someone who will, or state or federal resources.
In the history of the republic, this has never happened. The only time it came close was Kent State. That didn't turn out well for those who chose to blindly follow orders.

You seem to imply that I am being anti-cop or defeatist here. It is the opposite. As a gun rights activist, I try to educate people and get them to see the situation realistically, so they will be encouraged to take realistic actions. Cops are heroes to me and always will be. But I think we are putting unreasonable expectations on them to think they will bail us out of bad political decisions. We can't afford to relax, thinking disobedient cops will solve the problems for us. I am not saying you implied we relax, I'm just saying where I am coming from.
I think you've answered your own question. Most officers I know don't like "city hall" any more than anyone else. Disobedient cops who blindly follow orders will not get the support they need to survive such bad actions from their brothers and sisters in blue. That mistake is many times fatal. That is where many people fail to understand police. Their training and experience teaches them to think for themselves. They are not a military organization by any means. They have discretion in how they apply the law and they think far more than most soldiers. I know this because I have been part of their on-the-job training. I trust their judgement.

We also can't underestimate the potential opposition, which I see to be a government under liberal control. Government and politicians may be inept in a lot of ways, but if they really put their mind to some oppression, they can find a way to do it. I also think we can't afford to relax, thinking COTUS, the BOR, SCOTUS or government incompetence will save us. We have to get active, now. And sadly, I don't see that happening much.
I don't think you're understanding me at all. I don't think that in any way, shape, or form. If anything, I believe in the 2nd Amendment. I do know this much. Getting active with politicians, whose food and drink is CASH, without meeting that basic of their needs, ie: MORE CASH, is getting to be a waste of time. They will say, do, and promise ANYTHING to get elected. That is why, sadly, I see the 2nd Amendment and the words of Jefferson being the solution.

That is why thinking the words of people who believe it may be getting close to time to withdraw the consent of the governed are just talk and bluster, might end up being the worst mistake a people ever made. My opinion anyway.
 
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@OldChap: We will have to agree to disagree. You have avoided my continual questions about red flag laws, which is the only actual time police resolve has been tested. The rest is just promises, from elected sheriffs. Crickets from police chiefs. And officers have failed the test with red flag. They have enforced unconstitutional confiscations thousands of times, without hesitation.

And if you think Kent State was the only time in American history the feds have gone en masse against American citizens, you don't know your history. I can name at least 16 more instances, there may be more.

Finally, if politicians only care about CASH, why will they care about 2A? How and why would that be a solution? The courts aren't enforcing it. Why do we have hundreds of infringements of 2A that go unchallenged if it is a solution?

But I will leave it there. You believe what you want. I am out.
 

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Once again, the truth of the matter is that this is a poor medium for a serious discussion.

Perfect example: I didn’t say politicians cared about the 2A. I wrote “That is why, sadly, I see the 2A AND the words of (Thomas) Jefferson being the solution.” That is a reference to his thoughts on the matter in my signature line.

But I agree on one thing. You believe what you want and I’ll do the same.
 

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We all know that firearms are difficult to find and buy right now, but this article from the Chicago Tribune is particularly interesting. It goes into actual numbers, statistics, and the mindset of some of the first time buyers and how their attitudes about firearms may be changing.

Good!
 

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Apparently there are lots of people with this philosophy:
 
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With all that has been said, the influx of new buyers has skyrocketed! The issue I see (on a daily basis now) is people, coming into the Store, almost in a PANIC mode, to "buy a gun" They don't seem to care, or what they want, they just want to buy a gun. They don't even know what "Bullet goes into what gun" (a 22LR in a 410Ga, and vice versa and THIS, BTW, was one of my new customers ) Eye opener and very concerning to us "Veterans" of the gun world. Scary times ....
 

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With all that has been said, the influx of new buyers has skyrocketed! The issue I see (on a daily basis now) is people, coming into the Store, almost in a PANIC mode, to "buy a gun" They don't seem to care, or what they want, they just want to buy a gun. They don't even know what "Bullet goes into what gun" (a 22LR in a 410Ga, and vice versa and THIS, BTW, was one of my new customers ) Eye opener and very concerning to us "Veterans" of the gun world. Scary times ....
Up to fellas like us to educate them. Hopefully they will listen and learn.
It is not like buying a new laptop. The learning curve can kill you.
 

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With all that has been said, the influx of new buyers has skyrocketed! The issue I see (on a daily basis now) is people, coming into the Store, almost in a PANIC mode, to "buy a gun" They don't seem to care, or what they want, they just want to buy a gun. They don't even know what "Bullet goes into what gun" (a 22LR in a 410Ga, and vice versa and THIS, BTW, was one of my new customers ) Eye opener and very concerning to us "Veterans" of the gun world. Scary times ....
Yes scary times. I can imagine the worst.
I don't think these present times can be compared to any other time in the history of our Republic.
The people instigating the overthrow of our country had better rethink what they're wishing for.
 

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I think the LGS's and places like Cabela's are missing the boat. If I ran a LGS, I'd offer a free safety class to every first-time gun buyer. Something simple, maybe 30-45 minutes, covering just the basics.

Then, after contracting with a local NRA certified instructor, I'd offer a relatively inexpensive Next Step Class, where we'd talk more about safety, explain the permitting process for CC, cover local gun laws and pitch support for the 2nd Amendment, with addresses for Congress, Petitions, etc.

When these folks get more involved in firearms activities, where will they then spend their money?
 

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While I agree with you Chaplain Scott not sure many newbies are intrested.
I know a number of people that are new first time gun buyers. As much as I offer to help or explain the need to be safe, get some training....at least read the instructions that came with the firearm, only two have even listened, half heartily.
It's like they think ok I am safe I have a gun ... with no consept of personal safety or responsibility....or even how to load the mags.
 
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