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$2600? Wow. I don't know what size property or how the value is taxed there, but my taxes are about $1200. But you either have to be from NY/NJ or have a special Curmudgeon permit to move here.
I don’t know but it looks like you could be at risk of losing your curmudgeonality if your avatar keeps getting younger-looking. :tongue:
 

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In 2009, I was in my late 50's and the recession hit us hard. We nearly had to declare bankruptcy, we were up to our eyeballs in debt and our credit ratings were in the crapper. We clawed our way back over 10 years. Now our only debt is our mortgage. Two fairly new cars and a motorcycle, all paid off. No revolving debt. We have great healthcare. And we were just able to retire this year. Our retirement portfolio and strategy is pretty much recession and inflation proof. We will soon be insured for just about anything that could happen.

We aren't rich, but comfortable and we could downsize our budget if we had to. We tried semi-retirement for a while and realized most employers are getting to be complete jerks, especially to older people and we said we'd rather have less money and more freedom. We're lovin' it!

The reason I bring this up is to encourage people that you don't need as much runway to save for retirement as people think. You don't need a million dollars to retire. One thing I'd suggest is to find a really good financial planner who specializes in retirement, but not just retirement investing, but also retirement distributions. These folks are rare. Most financial planners don't get that or don't want to tell you. We went through some real dud planners before we found that one we have. And we ran into a lot of hucksters out there. Learn about the 4% Rule, the pros and cons of annuities and stuff like that.
 

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I don’t know but it looks like you could be at risk of losing your curmudgeonality if your avatar keeps getting younger-looking. :tongue:
I'm a master of illusions.
 
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$2600? Wow. I don't know what size property or how the value is taxed there, but my taxes are about $1200. But you either have to be from NY/NJ or have a special Curmudgeon permit to move here.
950 square feet
 

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950 square feet
Mine is @1600 under roof but includes garage I think. Lot about 85x125. I'll send you a Curmudgeon Work Permit in your Christmas card.
 

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I have no debt and I'm still able to pay off any credit card debt every month. Too bad I can't get rid of that pesky $2600/year property tax without having to move. I could move to Wyoming but who would want to live there?
I would. I have lived in California, Oregon, Washington, Nevada, Idaho, Montana and finally here in Wyoming. Best place we have ever lived and my wife has lived in 43 states. Great hunting and fishing, great gun laws or rather lack of gun laws, no income tax and a 4% sales tax.The massive open space and the weather scare a lot of people away but, they don't know what they don't know. BTW, we have a small newly remodeled 2 bedroom house on 1/4 acre in a small blue collar farming and ranching town with a garage and three storage buildings. Twice a week garbage pickup and street sweeping. Great hospital, solid Sheriff's and Police departments and my annual property taxes are $340 bucks.
The kids here say "Yes,Sir" and "Yes,Ma'am" and not a skinny jean or man bun in sight. People here don't spend money on flash. Pickup trucks are used as trucks and not status symbols. Open carry is common and nobody freaks out. The town is empty on Sunday until Churches get out. Its not for everyone, thank God, but, its our last, best place.
 

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@forester58, your WY place sounds perfect. I’d be very happy with your four seasons and the strong independent values. The locals around whom we live have similar values but I nearly never see open carry except the .243 or .270 across the handlebars of their 4-wheeler.
 

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One report says $1M is not enough while another report say the median retirement savings is $10k. Don't remember the exact amount, but it was well short of $1M. Somethings gotta give.
The median savings being 10k, and that being enough is not the same thing. That also doesn’t mean that those people who have $10k will have that much when they retire. That factors in everyone from probably age 18, maybe even 16 on.
I have no debt and I'm still able to pay off any credit card debt every month. Too bad I can't get rid of that pesky $2600/year property tax without having to move. I could move to Wyoming but who would want to live there?
Credit cards are awesome if you pay them off every month. Get those rewards points.

In 2009, I was in my late 50's and the recession hit us hard. We nearly had to declare bankruptcy, we were up to our eyeballs in debt and our credit ratings were in the crapper. We clawed our way back over 10 years. Now our only debt is our mortgage. Two fairly new cars and a motorcycle, all paid off. No revolving debt. We have great healthcare. And we were just able to retire this year. Our retirement portfolio and strategy is pretty much recession and inflation proof. We will soon be insured for just about anything that could happen.

We aren't rich, but comfortable and we could downsize our budget if we had to. We tried semi-retirement for a while and realized most employers are getting to be complete jerks, especially to older people and we said we'd rather have less money and more freedom. We're lovin' it!

The reason I bring this up is to encourage people that you don't need as much runway to save for retirement as people think. You don't need a million dollars to retire. One thing I'd suggest is to find a really good financial planner who specializes in retirement, but not just retirement investing, but also retirement distributions. These folks are rare. Most financial planners don't get that or don't want to tell you. We went through some real dud planners before we found that one we have. And we ran into a lot of hucksters out there. Learn about the 4% Rule, the pros and cons of annuities and stuff like that.
I guess it all depends what you want out of retirement. Someone who is 20 today and plans to retire when they are 60 may be very disappointed with the quality of life they willl be able to have with only a million dollars saved when they are of retirement age. On the other hand someone retired today may live just fine.
 

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In 2009, I was in my late 50's and the recession hit us hard. We nearly had to declare bankruptcy, we were up to our eyeballs in debt and our credit ratings were in the crapper. We clawed our way back over 10 years. Now our only debt is our mortgage. Two fairly new cars and a motorcycle, all paid off. No revolving debt. We have great healthcare. And we were just able to retire this year. Our retirement portfolio and strategy is pretty much recession and inflation proof. We will soon be insured for just about anything that could happen.

We aren't rich, but comfortable and we could downsize our budget if we had to. We tried semi-retirement for a while and realized most employers are getting to be complete jerks, especially to older people and we said we'd rather have less money and more freedom. We're lovin' it!

The reason I bring this up is to encourage people that you don't need as much runway to save for retirement as people think. You don't need a million dollars to retire. One thing I'd suggest is to find a really good financial planner who specializes in retirement, but not just retirement investing, but also retirement distributions. These folks are rare. Most financial planners don't get that or don't want to tell you. We went through some real dud planners before we found that one we have. And we ran into a lot of hucksters out there. Learn about the 4% Rule, the pros and cons of annuities and stuff like that.
Can I "like" this more than once? Yes, you need a dedicated and knowledgeable financial advisor working on your behalf and providing you with good advice so you can relax and allow the best things to happen!
 

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You mean the way to go isn’t to sell your already paid off house, and start another 30 year mortgage so you have have this giant house that you’ll be paying for until you die?



Renting certainly simplifies things, but from a financial perspective, the landlord is covering the cost of all that with the money they make from the tenant.
There is no way to predict the future. Back in the mid-1960's I rented a perfectly nice 1BR apartment for $35 per month. By 1970 (while I was in Vietnam) a similar apartment for my wife cost us $70 per month. During most of the 1970's I could purchase a decent home in a decent neighborhood for $25,000 with payments around $200 per month, and the same home would rent for $175.

Fast forward to more recent years. I now pay $1200 per year in property taxes and $1100 per year for homeowners insurance ($2300 per year, or nearly $200 per month) for a house I already own and have paid for in full. I could rent that house out for $1200 per month easily (but that would put me out on the street looking for "affordable housing").

My point here is that inflation is a never-ending attack on your plans for life. If you rent you will always be at the mercy of inflation and your landlord. If you own your home (by that I mean purchase it and pay off the mortgage completely) you remain at the mercy only of your taxing authorities and the insurance companies.

Own it. Pay it off. End of discussion.
 

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Lots of things are possible if you are willing to change your assumptions.

We have been a single-income family for all of our adult lives, and we don't live in a particularly cheap area. I work in a trade/industrial job, and I have never made six figures yet.

What we HAVE done is KEEP EXPENSES DOWN. We don't buy cars on credit, when we can avoid it. We don't carry balances on credit cards when we can avoid it. We budget carefully, content ourselves with a simple life, and save where we can. We don't go to Starbucks every day. We go shopping once a week at the discount supermarket where all the EBT folks shop because it's the cheapest. We do most of our own repairs on car/home/stuff. We keep our cars in well-maintained condition, until they are actually completely worn out, and have no further value except scrap. For vacations, we strap on the packs and head into the mountains, rather than going to the Bahamas (and have a FANTASTIC time). We have raised two kids and launched them successfully. One is a college graduate and works in medical research and the other is a welder.

What I mean by changing the assumptions is this: A lot of people assume they NEED things, when they really don't. They just WANT them. You don't NEED that smartphone with the expensive airtime plan. You don't NEED to change cars every few years, and you don't need a BRAND NEW car... EVER. You don't NEED a bigger house every few years as your family grows. You are NOT too busy to make food from scratch, and grow a lot of your own. You CAN learn to live within your means, and sufficiently to set aside some savings along with it.

As I said, we are single income, in a moderate to high-cost area with property taxes that suck, and our income is from a trade/industrial type of job.

I have 12 years left until my planned retirement. My house will be paid off in 10 more years. I currently have $350k set aside in my retirement savings. I probably won't make a million in there before retirement, but if you count the value of the house/property after it's paid off, it will be WELL over that. You CAN do this on a single income, if you adjust your assumptions. It is harder than it has been in the past, because our economy is so geared to the two-income household, but it IS still possible. I am living proof.

Live a simple life, mind your own business, work with your hands, treat other people well, and take care of your own sh**. It works.
 

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I retired from the military at 38. I took an early retirement, a large severance package, and an early signing bonus from a corporation during a merger when I was 53. The retirement package included life insurance for me and medical insurance for me and my wife for life. My wife received a large severance package and early signing bonus from the same corporation. We both contributed 17% to our 401K plus the corporation matched with 3% the entire time we worked there. Everything was rolled into self-directed IRAs.

I was recruited by another corporation which paid for our move to Florida. I took a severance package from that corporation during a downsizing when I was 55. I got bored with retirement and sold real estate until we decided to move to Oregon. I sold a luxury brand of cars. I was recruited by a government law enforcement agency and worked as a consultant for over five years.

I receive the maximum social security, military retired pay, and VA disability pay. Our IRAs are mad-money. We are debt free except for a small home mortgage that we could pay off, but we are making more on our IRA equities.

With Medicare, Tricare, and corporate health insurance, we never see a medical bill or copay.
 

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I would. I have lived in California, Oregon, Washington, Nevada, Idaho, Montana and finally here in Wyoming. Best place we have ever lived and my wife has lived in 43 states. Great hunting and fishing, great gun laws or rather lack of gun laws, no income tax and a 4% sales tax.The massive open space and the weather scare a lot of people away but, they don't know what they don't know. BTW, we have a small newly remodeled 2 bedroom house on 1/4 acre in a small blue collar farming and ranching town with a garage and three storage buildings. Twice a week garbage pickup and street sweeping. Great hospital, solid Sheriff's and Police departments and my annual property taxes are $340 bucks.
The kids here say "Yes,Sir" and "Yes,Ma'am" and not a skinny jean or man bun in sight. People here don't spend money on flash. Pickup trucks are used as trucks and not status symbols. Open carry is common and nobody freaks out. The town is empty on Sunday until Churches get out. Its not for everyone, thank God, but, its our last, best place.
I lived in the Rock Springs-Green River area for 9 years. If it hadn't been for such a good paying job I would've left sooner since I hated the location. It was tough moving from Denver to there but it was the only decent paying job at the time. I'd rather live in a large city like Denver but I don't see that happening mainly because I really don't want to move. Besides, there isn't any place that beckons me to move. But, for a red state, Nebraska sure has high taxes.
 
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Lots of things are possible if you are willing to change your assumptions.

We have been a single-income family for all of our adult lives, and we don't live in a particularly cheap area. I work in a trade/industrial job, and I have never made six figures yet.

What we HAVE done is KEEP EXPENSES DOWN. We don't buy cars on credit, when we can avoid it. We don't carry balances on credit cards when we can avoid it. We budget carefully, content ourselves with a simple life, and save where we can. We don't go to Starbucks every day. We go shopping once a week at the discount supermarket where all the EBT folks shop because it's the cheapest. We do most of our own repairs on car/home/stuff. We keep our cars in well-maintained condition, until they are actually completely worn out, and have no further value except scrap. For vacations, we strap on the packs and head into the mountains, rather than going to the Bahamas (and have a FANTASTIC time). We have raised two kids and launched them successfully. One is a college graduate and works in medical research and the other is a welder.

What I mean by changing the assumptions is this: A lot of people assume they NEED things, when they really don't. They just WANT them. You don't NEED that smartphone with the expensive airtime plan. You don't NEED to change cars every few years, and you don't need a BRAND NEW car... EVER. You don't NEED a bigger house every few years as your family grows. You are NOT too busy to make food from scratch, and grow a lot of your own. You CAN learn to live within your means, and sufficiently to set aside some savings along with it.

As I said, we are single income, in a moderate to high-cost area with property taxes that suck, and our income is from a trade/industrial type of job.

I have 12 years left until my planned retirement. My house will be paid off in 10 more years. I currently have $350k set aside in my retirement savings. I probably won't make a million in there before retirement, but if you count the value of the house/property after it's paid off, it will be WELL over that. You CAN do this on a single income, if you adjust your assumptions. It is harder than it has been in the past, because our economy is so geared to the two-income household, but it IS still possible. I am living proof.

Live a simple life, mind your own business, work with your hands, treat other people well, and take care of your own sh**. It works.
Amen brother, living within ones means is very possible from another one income household. In America we buy our blues away. I live modestly and I now owe nothing to nobody with retirement planned for 12/31/20. Paid for pickup truck and RV is our travel plans and we explore our own backyard which most people do not. We know more places to go camping and hiking than most of the locals do. I won't have a million dollars in retirement but, we will be comfortable and content. We feel like we have everything we need and then some.
 

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I lived in the Rock Springs-Green River area for 9 years. If it hadn't been for such a good paying job I would've left sooner since I hated the location. It was tough moving from Denver to there but it was the only decent paying job at the time. I'd rather live in a large city like Denver but I don't see that happening mainly because I really don't want to move. Besides, there isn't any place that beckons me to move. But, for a red state, Nebraska sure has high taxes.
I don't blame you, I don't like that particular part of Wyoming either. The goals for our retirement location were: Cheap taxes, gun freedom,no tourist attractions, no colleges, no traffic, no ski hill or large lakes, no deep snows and for certain no towns on the interstates. We are close to Montana in the north. If you prefer large cities our location would suck though.
 

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My father recently retired. He paid off all of his debt before doing so. He lives comfortably on $3100 a month. If he had $1M in the bank that would last 26.88 years without interest or investment.

He has decided to rent instead of own in retirement. That way he has no high dollar unexpected expenses. AC goes out? Leely roof? Septic system needs to be replaced? Someone else pays for it.

Maybe you can't live comfortably on $3100 a month in FL but you certainly can here.
My house is paid for. I don't pay any rent. I have no credit card balance. The AC goes out? Guess what, it did just last month. It was 16 years old, so I decided to go with a new (and more efficient) heat pump. Someone else doesn't pay for repairs, the renter does. Landlords have maintenance costs built into rent, and rent keeps getting higher and higher.
 

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- debt is slavery
- if you're in debt you'll be getting up at 5am tomorrow (Monday morning) and sitting in the rat-race
- if you're not in debt Monday=Saturday and you're excited that there will be less people everywhere you are planning to recreate on that day




.
 

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My house is paid for. I don't pay any rent. I have no credit card balance. The AC goes out? Guess what, it did just last month. It was 16 years old, so I decided to go with a new (and more efficient) heat pump. Someone else doesn't pay for repairs, the renter does. Landlords have maintenance costs built into rent, and rent keeps getting higher and higher.
I understand the benefits of home ownership. I own my home and it's expensive. My AC went out last year and needed a new unit. It cost us $6k. The roof is going to need to be replaced soon, that's gonna be pretty expensive as well. The water heater is well beyond it's expected lifespan. While that's not that expensive it's still something I have to pay for.

His rent is only $100 more per month than his mortgage payment would have been. For $100 a month and at his age he'd rather not worry about having to pay to fix anything.
 

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I understand the benefits of home ownership. I own my home and it's expensive. My AC went out last year and needed a new unit. It cost us $6k. The roof is going to need to be replaced soon, that's gonna be pretty expensive as well. The water heater is well beyond it's expected lifespan. While that's not that expensive it's still something I have to pay for.

His rent is only $100 more per month than his mortgage payment would have been. For $100 a month and at his age he'd rather not worry about having to pay to fix anything.
The problem with renting is when the roof needs to be replaced and you have a landlord who doesnt want to spend the money, and there is nothing you can do about it. Same with the water heater, A/C and anything else. I plan to be mortgage free when I retire. I think the only way I could ever go back to renting would be in a nicer apartment/townhome community where I know everything will be taken care of. There is certainly a benefit to not needing to worry about taking care of the place. I just dont think I could toss away the money except as a last resort.
 
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Rent/buy and keeping vs paying off mortgage are both “it depends” decisions (as are so many we face like, “which gun should my friend buy for plinking?”). There’s no right answer without looking at all the variables involved.
Exactly right. I retired at 52, to get a great retirement package (and not have to move). Stayed retired for 2 years, and am now back to working part-time for the same very large international tech company. Great retirement gig, work from anywhere, my own hours, nobody ever breathing down my neck. Been collecting my full pension since I retired. Waiting on full SS benefits until I re-retire, but we'd be fine today if I was no longer working. Wife is 10 years younger and still working. She will also get a pension. So between both pensions, dual SS income, living in a lower tax state and having no debt, our 7 figure retirement savings is just a savings account to us. We worked hard to get here, though.

I have been after my son and his wife to start saving early for retirement, but I'm sure they are not. Both in their 30's, both with good jobs where they can apply their masters degrees. I'll keep after him. :smile:
 
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