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Discussion Starter #1
and it\'s almost never necessary for you to hit more than 1 man (once each). So why bother firing at 3 targets, reloading and firing at all 3 AGAIN, hmm? Big waste of ammo and range-time. All such practice does is teach you to shoot too SLOWLY.
 

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You make some assumptions that are incorrect.
First, 30 years ago you had about a 40% chance of multiple attackers. Now, that is a 50/50 chance. Multiple does not mean 2--it means more than one. In my city last year there were 728 violent crimes involving 3 or more assailants at once.
One of my students was involved in a fight with 2 armed robbers last year. He fired 8 rds. One BG was hit 5 times, the other 2 times, plus 1 miss. That was what it took.
 

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Well, I suppose statistics indicate one will probably not engage an attacker at over 3-6\'. So, yes, 10 yds is probably not the range at which most practice for ccw shooting is best alloted. However, in any shooting discipline, accuracy is required. Some shooting at 10yds will tell one of one\'s mistakes (trigger control) since the further out one is, the more pronounced the flaw. Shooting at 3-6'wont give you a very good marker of your accuracy. But, moving out to further ranges will show you the things you need to work on. Accuracy is the same or should be the same no matter the distance. If the sight alignment is correct and remains undisturbed throughout the trgger pull and reset, small groups should be the result at any reasonable range.
And, since Murphy\'s Law is one of the reasons most choose to carry a gun, it might one day prove useful to have good skills at any distance.
I might also add something I heard in a class I attended recently. \"oh, at 3-6'I\'m so close I cant miss\". When the reality is \"at 3-6'he\'s so close I better NOT miss\". Poor trigger control will catch up even at close distances. But proper control can be gained by shooting correctly at longer distances.

Dan
 

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When shooting with my partner we would set up 3 targets, each offset about 3 feet and back 3 feet. What amazed me was how bad my shooting was when moving target to target. We would fire 2 rounds, move to the next target and do the same. It brought out our lack of concentration and shooting control. I thought it was a good drill even though handling 3 bad guys may never happen.
 

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most of my CCW practice is within 7 yards. I will occasionally venture out to 25 and 100 yards. It will probably never happen, but provided good cover i\'d be able to pin down someone with a long gun at those ranges. I am fortunate enough to have a range where i can draw and fire on the move (because i\'m usually the only one there). I practice movement in all directions firing against 1-4 targets from 0 yards (retention) and up.

I live in a neighborhood full of gangs. Gang members are pussies. They never attack alone.

between me and my shooting buddy, we go through 500-700 rounds per range visit
 

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When in a training mode I purposely make my shots harder to make then usual to push me to use correct sight alignment and trigger control and I find 10 yards a good start. When I do enough of that, then moving in to the five yard line and less makes those shots incredibly easy and my speed increases considerably.
 

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I think the most practical CCW drills that I do don\'t involve my real firearm at all.

Here\'s my favorite.
1) Stand (close) in front of a heavy punching bag with your airsoft gun in your normal holster carried the way you normally conceal it.
2) Hit or jam with your free hand as you step back (at a 45-degree angle left or right) and clear access to the weapon.
3) Draw your free hand back into a guard position (I place my left palm on the side of my head just above my temple with the elbow toward the punching bag. Simultaneously bring the pistol to a pectoral index retention position. (I put the pinky of my shooting hand against my pectoral muscle while my pistol cants outward, hand palm-up)
4) Fire and hit the heavy punching bag with an airsoft pellet.
5) Step back again still moving diagonally.
6) Assess your target, and do a 360-degree scan. While continuing to move.

This drill a) prepares for the fist-fight distances where most civillian gunfights occur, b) trains to integrate empty hand and armed technique c) trains to fire from a close quarters retention position, and d) trains to move and keep moving during a fight.

Chuck
 

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Another favorite drill includes an airsoft too. I can do this one in my living room. It\'s one of Gabe Suarez\'s drills.
a) Start facing my (airsoft) target, wearing my (airsoft) pistol where you normally wear a real firearm and with normal concealment garments.
b) Step off line at a diagonal as you draw.
c) Shoot the target
d) step diagonally again
e) Assess the target and shoot again if necessary
f) Scan the target area
g) perform a 360 scan
h) step offline again, weapon check and check self for injury.

Chuck
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I aint stopping to \"assess\" ANYTHING.

he gets bullets until he falls out of my line of sight, then I look for his buddy. STARTING with lots of attackers, and still HAVING more , after they\'ve SEEN you shoot down 2 of their buddies, just DOESN\'T happen to civilians in the USA. I\'ve been studying this subject for almost 40 years. I\'ve been a Life Member of NRA for 26 years.

Be GLAD of it, because by the time you CAN shoot down 2 men, the OTHERS will have maimed or killed you, unless you are a Class A shottist and carry one hell of a mean load, wear armor, etc. Just hitting those 2, enoiugh times to down them, is going to take you so long that their buddies WILL get you, if they really want to do so.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
you AINT making a ccw belt draw,

with realistic outer garment, and using your weak side hand to jack. Your weak hand is needed to clear the garment. At such ranges, I'just forget about the gun, and rip the jerk\'s head off. Go ape on him,with REAL hand to hand ability, and you\'ll be more likely to get him than you would if yoiu shot him wiht a typicall ccw pistol and load. A punch that will split a 2x12 pine board will cave in his entire face.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
if you are truly fast at 10 yds, you aint

much faster at 6 ft. .10 second, tops. At arm\'s length, you might be .20 second faster than you are at 10 yds, but it\'s FAR faster to just \"swarm\" the gun with hand to hand moves, at arm\'s length, than it is to bother with a ccw draw, unless you already had your hand ON a pocket gun. Even then, unless you have one helluva load in the pocket gun, the hand to hand moves will be far more effective, if you have adequate training at such.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Trained men throw 8 punches per second,

or 3 kicks per second ,and the top men can do both at the same time. :) A man can kick you LONG before you are within arm\'s reach of him.
 

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This why no one pays attention to GunKid - he IS ridiculous. He is also gone.....Thanks, Bumper!
 

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Originally posted by mark123
These \"statistics\" are hilarious.
I was going to delete all of his posts but some of them serve as a reminder of why I should ban him immediately upon detection next time. He does fancy himself as a player. :p
 
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