Defensive Carry banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,063 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I am currently carrying 124g hydrashocks in my Taurus 709 (Non +p rated). I am looking to change to something a bit more modern. After a bit of research I found a lot of data pointing to Federal 147g HST as a qualit round. My question though (Because I don't know much about ballistics) is this. From what I understand 147g rounds are slower then 115 and 124. Also, generally speaking the shorter the barrel the round is fired from the less velocity you get. Will a 147g round coming out of a 3 inch barrel have sufficent velocity to expand and penetrate?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
261 Posts
um......my NON-technical answer would that I would not want to get hit with ANY of the rounds....and at most any velocity...... however, knowing BG's like I do, I would not think they will care what you shoot them with..... MHO anyway... But they are not very smart are they??

Ok, your question.....I like a 124 grain in a 9mm, just a great all purpose round, quick with good penatration..... a bigger grain without a bigger cal. is not always the best answer....... take that as you wish..... just my .02.......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
182 Posts
Yes, with shorter barrels heavier rounds won't have as much time to accelerate. That's why I carry the 124 grain HST's.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,531 Posts
I actually preferred 147gr bullets in my G26; heavier bullets tend to have better penetration, and modern bullet designs open up just fine at lower velocities.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
483 Posts
I actually preferred 147gr bullets in my G26; heavier bullets tend to have better penetration, and modern bullet designs open up just fine at lower velocities.
+1:yup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,087 Posts
here are some factory loads through my chrongraph.

glock 19 - kkm barrel.
factory 147 gr hydra shok ammo, 5 shot average - 957 fps.
factory ball 124 gr, 5 shot average - 1,056 fps.

glock 23 - kkm barrel
federal hydra shok 165 gr, 5 shot average 951 fps.

glock 27 - kkm barrel
speer gold dot 165 gr gdhp, 10 shot average 938 fps.

the only load i have tested through a g26 and g30 are some cast lead reloads that i made to be lite range loads.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36 Posts
On another forum, a poster cut and pasted an email from a technical guy at Winchester.

He pretty much reccommended 147 gr. Ranger for short barrels.

He spoke about dwell time in the barrel of the 147 gr. being longer because it is a slower round, enabling the round to take better advantage of the propellant burn.

Lighter rounds leave the barrel quicker, not taking full advantage of the powder.

He said to think in terms of time in barrel, taking fuller advantage of the propellant.

This was contradictory to what I thought I knew about ballistics.

Speer has some lighter +P ammo designed specifically for short barrels, that uses a quicker burn for the lessened dwell time. I would use this, or one of the Premium 147 gr.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,001 Posts
On another forum, a poster cut and pasted an email from a technical guy at Winchester.

He pretty much reccommended 147 gr. Ranger for short barrels.

He spoke about dwell time in the barrel of the 147 gr. being longer because it is a slower round, enabling the round to take better advantage of the propellant burn.

Lighter rounds leave the barrel quicker, not taking full advantage of the powder.

He said to think in terms of time in barrel, taking fuller advantage of the propellant.

This was contradictory to what I thought I knew about ballistics.

Speer has some lighter +P ammo designed specifically for short barrels, that uses a quicker burn for the lessened dwell time. I would use this, or one of the Premium 147 gr.

That makes sense. I hadn't thought about it before, the heavier bullet would take longer to exit the barrel. If the powder charge is generating equal pressures in both the lighter and heavier bullet cartridges, then naturally, the heavier bullet would take longer to exit...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,547 Posts
That's an interesting point. I'd never thought of that before, but it does make sense. A bullet that goes slower will take longer to exit a short barrel and will waste less of the powder charge. So ballistically you could consider it a more efficient round in short barrels.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
499 Posts
I put this question to Springfield for my 3" XDSC.

The response I got back favors the 147 load, but there was no criticism of lighter loads, either.

+P loads would be fine, but would cause more wear with constant use. I was cautioned against reloads or foreign ammo. (of course)

Unless someone actually does some ballistic tests, I think we're doing OK with most factory loads, in short barrels.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,169 Posts
That makes sense. I hadn't thought about it before, the heavier bullet would take longer to exit the barrel. If the powder charge is generating equal pressures in both the lighter and heavier bullet cartridges, then naturally, the heavier bullet would take longer to exit...
The 124g bullet will typically have more powder than 147g bullet due to the higher pressure created by the heavier bullet and greater bearing surface. Just make sure the bullet will expand at the velocity generated by your gun.
Stevew
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
916 Posts
The difference between a 147 out of a 4" barrel and out of a 3" barrel is only around 50fps. This is not significant. The 147 work fine out of the 9sc and will ruin a BG's day if he catches one.

The heavier 147 will give somewhat deeper penetration than a 124 from the same gun but either one will do the trick.

An interesting fact of penetration is that higher velocity out of the barrel does not mean deeper penetration in the target. Deeper penetration is the result of mass not velocity.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
499 Posts
The difference between a 147 out of a 4" barrel and out of a 3" barrel is only around 50fps. This is not significant. The 147 work fine out of the 9sc and will ruin a BG's day if he catches one.

The heavier 147 will give somewhat deeper penetration than a 124 from the same gun but either one will do the trick.

An interesting fact of penetration is that higher velocity out of the barrel does not mean deeper penetration in the target. Deeper penetration is the result of mass not velocity.
Well, this is my own rationale for using heavier loads. Penetration vs expansion which would produce AT BEST, hundredths of an inch of expansion.

Accuracy + multiple hits.... I don't think the specs of the loads matters as much as those variables.

(I am not an expert)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
446 Posts
Well...in simple terms I was told penetration is a factor of mass and velocity...and obviously the media you're punching through. General rule of thumb to me is with two different weights going the same speed the heavier one will penetrate further assuming they're shot into the same material/media. There's you a non-expert, two-cent opinion.

I agreed with that said above the 147 vs. 124 isn't going to make that much of a differnce. I certainly don't want to get hit with either one!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
433 Posts
Here is a very good article that answers your question: Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

Here is a picture from the article. Notice the penetration depths of the same caliber bullets that are different weights. Even though the lighter bullets are moving fast (fps) they still don't penetrate as far as the bullets with more mass.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
274 Posts
AFAIK, a 147 gr bullet shot out of a 3" barrel will have more inertia than a 115 or 124 gr bullet shot out of a 3" barrel.

The more the inertia, the more it takes to stop the projectile.

I use 147 gr Federal HST.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
443 Posts
the difference of an inch or two is insignificant you will not loose enough speed to worry about, after all you will not be shooting at 50 yards if you need to defend yourself.
At contact to 10 feet the loss of 100 ft/sec won't matter shoot what works best in your gun and don't worry about the weight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
74 Posts
I use 147 gr as my carry round and living in the midwest people wear heavy clothing this time a year, so penetration is important. My department when they went to a 9mm issued Winchester Black Talon 147 gr ammo. Winchester now calls it Ranger T and it is a great 9mm load. Second to that the Federal 147 gr HST which is building a good reputation. Penetration is the second most important factor when it comes to stopping bad guys, the first as always is bullet placement.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,055 Posts
Look here and do some comparisons:
Ballistics by the inch

And sometimes the heavier loads penetrate more because they expand much less, less surface area to slow the projectile down. Regardless of what you think of thier methods and results, there is some great information on the ballsitics and perfomance of ammunition in short barrels in Marshal and Sanow's books.

And a quick calculation for energy, Velocity squared x bullet weight in grains divided by the constant 450240 should give energy as FPE.
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top