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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
NRA-ILA
Posted on May 11, 2013

Earlier this week, the California Assembly Appropriations Committee voted 11 to 5 to approve a proposed statewide lead ammunition ban for all hunting, Assembly Bill 711. AB 711 would make California the first state in the nation to prohibit the use of all lead ammunition for hunting. This bill now goes to the state Assembly floor where it is expected to be brought up for a vote soon. The NRA urges all hunters, recreational shooters and gun owners to actively oppose AB 711. We strongly urge you to contact members of the state Assembly. Please forward this alert to your family, friends, fellow sportsmen and gun owners throughout California and urge them to do the same. Contact information for all state Assemblymen can be found here: Legislative Action Center



Oops. I forgot to add the linky thingy. Here it is: http://www.nraila.org/legislation/s...goes-to-assembly-floor.aspx?utm_source=feedly
 

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I just cannot imagine condors soaring around the mountain tops searching for lead bullets to consume. Those poor, poor oppressed people having to live under that regime.
 

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Those poor, poor oppressed people having to live under that regime.
They don't have to! They choose to!

I moved to Nevada, and now I thinking of Texas, Utah, and or Montana!
 
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Don't take this the wrong way. You people who live in liberal cess pools and allowed this to happen, stay away my wonderful part of the country.
 

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The California mentality is a cancer on this nation. Such a shame it took hold in a state that once (like long ago) held personal liberty very highly.
They (of this ilk) value personal liberty very much. It is only certain ones, the others are not fit to be included so they are not included. Marry your parrot, but do not shoot with lead!
 

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Don't take this the wrong way. You people who live in liberal cess pools and allowed this to happen, stay away my wonderful part of the country.
Don't count on it... they're leaving the land of OZ because it's so expensive... and they can see beautiful vistas inland... and will want to make it JUST LIKE CALIFORNIA when they get there!
 

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Don't count on it... they're leaving the land of OZ because it's so expensive... and they can see beautiful vistas inland... and will want to make it JUST LIKE CALIFORNIA when they get there!
Like Colorado!,I might be wrong,but I don't know of any 22LR ammunition that is not lead,since they complain the birds get lead poisoning from eating the gut piles from animals hunters have field dressed,just make it illegal to leave those gut piles behind.
 

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Don't count on it... they're leaving the land of OZ because it's so expensive... and they can see beautiful vistas inland... and will want to make it JUST LIKE CALIFORNIA when they get there!
I think you're making an unfair generalization. I've lived here for most of my life, but can't wait to get out now, and there are many others like me. And, no, I don't want it to be like California where I move.
 

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Living in Florida I have met a lot of people from NY and surrounding anti-gun areas and surprisingly all the ones I've had extensive conversations with are avid firearms enthusiasts. Perhaps the people that left up there and came down here did so because they didn't agree with the direction it was going.

All I can say is if a person is giving serious consideration to leaving their home state and moving to Florida, they need to accept up front that Florida is fairly supportive of our gun rights. Perhaps not the best (no OC), but I would venture to say in the top 15 States (give or take a few spots either way).
 

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California-bashing is one thing. Californian-bashing is definitely over generalizing. Though a forthcoming reply is not expected, here is this Californian's letter to his representative.
Assemblymember Lowenthal,
Please consider that AB 711 may strike a blow to subsistence and low-income hunters especially. Other reasons to oppose AB 711, 2014, Hunting, Non-lead Ammunition:
*False data as bases of support
*Environmental impacts of and other problems with alternative ammo
*Likely wildlife lead sources are not lead ammo
*Lead-alternative ammo is federally illegal as armor-piercing and so illegal for hunters and a devastating blow to hunting in California, which is a boon to the conservation economy and to the general state economy.
*Historical lead ammunition in the field for over a century shows no negative environmental impact. Such "metallic lead is not very soluble and does not tend to migrate."
*Hunters are not heedless of the environment. To the contrary, it is in their interest to foster stewardship and a healthy environment. I believe that hunters are better environmentalists than the Humane Society of the US, a sponsor of AB 711.
*AB 711 is a hasty bypass of the California Fish and Game Commission and their call for closer scrutiny of the issues.

Please see the original source of my points of contention with AB711:
Rebuttal to the Audubon Society?s Support for the Proposed Statewide Lead Ammunition Ban (AB 711) for Hunting in California | Hunt For Truth -
I think that we're going to get a lot further with constructive ideas than with generally tearing each other down. But it's okay because I won't hear the useless criticism of those on my ignore list. However, I am always checking for good ways and means to fight for my rights from "Paradise" :image035:
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Living in Florida I have met a lot of people from NY and surrounding anti-gun areas and surprisingly all the ones I've had extensive conversations with are avid firearms enthusiasts. Perhaps the people that left up there and came down here did so because they didn't agree with the direction it was going.

All I can say is if a person is giving serious consideration to leaving their home state and moving to Florida, they need to accept up front that Florida is fairly supportive of our gun rights. Perhaps not the best (no OC), but I would venture to say in the top 15 States (give or take a few spots either way).
Te gunshine state! I specificly have my FL permit for when I am there.
 

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I guess the whole line anti's use of "believing in the American tradition of hunting" was a load of BS.
 

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Well..... eliminate lead bullets.... drive up price, they are also looking at adding a 10% tax on all ammo ...... drive up price on ammo, and continue to try to deprive people of their 2A rights.... or their ability to exercise them.

Their argument was ... it was getting in "food sources" and "harming the children" .... really ? Tell those kids they shouldn't eat condors... they're protected in California. Like to know how they figured that out anyway and what they had to back it up.

Don't worry ..... they'll have a source ...via the Tijuana tunnels.
 

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I am glad i stockpiled around 400 Lbs of lead scrap. I might turn it into gold!
 
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If people did watch the video, it really does look like there might be a lead problem in that area. I don't know much about lead toxicity, but it seems like something to prevent and to avoid, and because it is a pollution you need legislation (or regulations) to prevent it. The video claims that there's no evidence suggesting expanding the lead ban zone would be of benefit, and I can agree with that. I wonder if it's worth maintaining the lead ban in the condor zone? If only to help limit the available sources of lead and to aid the zeroing-in of where the lead is coming from?
 

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If people did watch the video, it really does look like there might be a lead problem in that area. I don't know much about lead toxicity, but it seems like something to prevent and to avoid, and because it is a pollution you need legislation (or regulations) to prevent it. The video claims that there's no evidence suggesting expanding the lead ban zone would be of benefit, and I can agree with that. I wonder if it's worth maintaining the lead ban in the condor zone? If only to help limit the available sources of lead and to aid the zeroing-in of where the lead is coming from?

If there's a 99% compliance rate amongst hunters in the so called condor zones, and there is a 400% increase in death of condors from lead poisoning since the ban on lead projectiles in the condor zone... then that tells me that something else is the culprit... It may very well be the abandoned mines, and the toxic waste associated with them, it could very well be the cattle licking abandoned car batteries... It could be the c0ondors chewing on the painted surfaces of the old buildings in the area.

Why don't the legislators simply write a law making it illegal for the condors to die of lead poisoning? Surely that would fix the problem.
 

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Yeah, that compliance leads one to think that it's not the bullets. The leaded paint would also be pretty old, too, and shouldn't be a new source. Now, maybe calling it a '400% increase' might be a tad reactionary, because it's a quadrupling of 'one', and thus probably not statistically significant. The problem is that there're a lot of biological toxins that get concentrated as they move up the food chain, and it seem that condors are pretty high up. But, really, they should be akin to any predator animal. I wonder if other carnivores are dying of lead poisoning? You'd think there'd be a reasonable number of ecologists with reasonable theories. I'll poke around Google Scholar.

edit:
http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/341811/description/Lead_poisoning_stymies_condor_recovery
About 30 percent of blood samples collected annually from free-flying condors in California show lead concentrations high enough to affect the birds’ physiology, Finkelstein and her colleagues report. Each year about 20 percent of the state’s monitored birds flunk their lead test badly enough to need detox.
http://www.jwildlifedis.org/content/48/1/95.short
A total of 135 deaths occurred from October 1992 (the first post-release death) through December 2009, from a maximum population-at-risk of 352 birds, for a cumulative crude mortality rate of 38%. A definitive cause of death was determined for 76 of the 98 submitted cases, 70% (53/76) of which were attributed to [man-made] causes. Trash ingestion was the most important mortality factor in nestlings, while lead toxicosis was the most important factor in juveniles
(snipped for brevity)

That's ... wow.

The biggest criticism of any hypothesis would be that lead in the blood itself is not traceable. You need to find sources.

edit 2:
The paper from the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America (PNAS) is open-access (gosh, PNAS is awesome). They try to distinguish between paint and non-paint by isotope analysis, because they collected paint from a tower near a nesting site. They were able to associate a small subset of the poisonings directly to paint.
Fourteen condors (∼13% of free-flying birds) had a blood 207Pb/206Pb ratio that could not be explained by the background or lead-based ammunition isotope ratios, with the lead source for five of these birds most likely attributable to lead-based paint (described above).
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