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I’m reading here because it’s dark outside, I have no lights on my range, it’s in the woods so I don’t relish dropping stuff and waiting ‘til tomorrow to look for it in the leaves and grass. Plus I worked my butt off today cutting, clearing, stacking firewood, and digging. My Glocks don’t need cleaning. Ever. My ammo’s been sorted, stacked, resorted, restacked, put in ammo cans, changed to different cans. I do have a light in my shop so I could redo all the ammo. But I don’t want to. So i’m happier reading here than not.

I cherry pick what I read in DC. I’m most interested in skill building, training, learning. I want to maintain our rights to own, carry, and to safely convert money to noise. That involves supporting appropriate lobbying orgs as well as my relentlessly advising my district representatives in State gov and my congress reps of the conditional nature of my vote. The conspicuous gnashing of opinions and flailing of keyboards, amongst ourselves, is meaningless to our elected reps and to everyone else who doesn’t read our threads. I read what I like to learn about. Most of y’all are way more experienced and smarter than I, so this is a good place for my reading.

Okay, I think the mods should close this thread. I’m not going to learn anything else here.
 

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Discussion Starter #82
I think your point is well typed.
I don’t think I am one that talks in such threads very much. I do feel very strongly about the 2A, yes because I want to keep my guns, but more importantly I see the 2A as a cornerstone of what has now become a house of cards.

You are right, everything is fubar, and I think that the 2A fight is the only thing left. Once that is lost, or the light s go out, we will descend into anarchy that leads to a totalitarian government that will fill the void.
Doomsday scenarios of descending into anarchy are fraught with boogeymans that won't ever materialize. There's many more scenario that could result in the same result faster than repercussions of 2A. Hence the thread about so many making 2A their cornerstone when that's not the leading cause of the failure and decent society is experiencing today
 

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I can't take my dog everywhere, its an abomination of my freedom.
I missed the place in the BOR that mentioned dogs.

Here is a classic anti-gun argument that sounds pretty much like your own. "We have to register cars which can be dangerous so it only makes sense to register guns"
 

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Doomsday scenarios of descending into anarchy are fraught with boogeymans that won't ever materialize. There's many more scenario that could result in the same result faster than repercussions of 2A. Hence the thread about so many making 2A their cornerstone when that's not the leading cause of the failure and decent society is experiencing today
I agree and think doomsday is unlikely. Rather a slow death by 1000 cuts.
The current discredit of law enforcement is a good example.

I think part of it is that fighting for the 2A is a last gasp prior to the death of the republic.
 

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I missed the place in the BOR that mentioned dogs.

Here is a classic anti-gun argument that sounds pretty much like your own. "We have to register cars which can be dangerous so it only makes sense to register guns"
You see a dog?
I read on here that people are so preoccupied with their phone they won't notice.
If someone did notice or "say something" then I just lie, like the beaten cliche of saying printing is a colostomy bag. :rolleyes:

Sir, you can't bring a dog in the store. Excuse me, what did you just call my child? He has a medical condition, how dare you.

No, I'm not going to do that, its an analogy.
Some open carriers fantasize that people seeing them packing a gun will result in people accepting the gun.
I made it less personal by using a dog, seeing me with my dog in public is not likely to change negative opinion about dog in public.

I'm not being anti OC, rather anti being inconsistent (OC some places but not others, pick & choose) and use of analogy to address unrealistic view.
Seeing someone do something (regardless of whether they consider it a right) does not equate to acceptance, changing opinion (analogy #2 - two guys holding hands).
 

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You see a dog?
I read on here that people are so preoccupied with their phone they won't notice.
If someone did notice or "say something" then I just lie, like the beaten cliche of saying printing is a colostomy bag. :rolleyes:

Sir, you can't bring a dog in the store. Excuse me, what did you just call my child? He has a medical condition, how dare you.

No, I'm not going to do that, its an analogy.
Some open carriers fantasize that people seeing them packing a gun will result in people accepting the gun.
I made it less personal by using a dog, seeing me with my dog in public is not likely to change negative opinion about dog in public.

I'm not being anti OC, rather anti being inconsistent (OC some places but not others, pick & choose) and use of analogy to address unrealistic view.
Seeing someone do something (regardless of whether they consider it a right) does not equate to acceptance, changing opinion (analogy #2 - two guys holding hands).
I’m fine with people having a negative opinion of OC. I’m fine with them having a negative opinion of CC. I’m fine with people having a negative opinion of guns. That doesn’t change whether I think people should be able to carry, openly or concealed, the gun of their choice. Whether or not they approve is their choice. They are going to deal with it either way.
 
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Well, of course 2A is one of the primary discussions here and many will be very ardent in their positions: this is a forum dedicated to concealed carry and attracts people that will have strong opinions on the subject. Further, while public opinion may be more "balanced" the viewpoint of this membership will gravitate to the right, so there will appear to be more people here with what would be considered extreme views. I'm sure if you go to some forum dedicated to gun control, there won't be any members making the case that there is an individual right to KBA so any gun control laws will need to adhere to that right. But, you would find many members advocating for extreme bans, confiscation, excessive taxes, classifying the NRA as a terrorist org., etc.

But, as with any cause, those with extreme views run the risk of hurting their cause by turning off those in "the center". However, I fear that there are very few left in the center in our society with regard to any subject: guns, the border, abortion, drugs, etc. We are deeply divided and that only serves to push each side further apart to those extremes.

But, as others have stated, our Rights are respective to the government and what it can/cannot do to us. We do not have rights with respect to other people or businesses; in some cases there are laws that govern some aspects: e.g. I don't have a right to unreasonable search and seizure by another individual, but there are laws that would make that a crime. But, in other instances, I do not have those rights at all: I do not have freedom of speech on facebook, if someone tries to sue me, they don't have to provide me a lawyer, if my company thinks I may have stolen something I don't have the right to remain silent. They can't make me talk, but they can certainly fire me for not cooperating.
 

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"This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty.... The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."
- St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England, 1803

The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."
- Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 1833


Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined.... The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun."
- Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778
 

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I have no problem with open carry. I do it myself on a regular basis. What I do have a problem with is people OC'ing and claiming it is their Right to do so in circumstances where they are wrong. And that is not limited to OC. Anyone whether OC or CC needs to understand what their Rights actually are, not just what they want them to be.
 

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Are those mule hooves I hear?
 
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I missed the place in the BOR that mentioned dogs.
It does not mention dogs. It does, however, mention free speech. The only legal limits on that are extensions of the old "you can't yell 'fire' in a crowded theater. Fine. So outside of that, you have the right to say what you want, where you want. But does it make sense to use the N-word, especially within earshot of black people? You have a right to do so in this country, but you are probably going to get your butt kicked and LE is probably not going to do anything about it. If you work at any job, even a federal government job (the feds being who is charged directly with supporting the BOR) you will get fired.

I am sure you can find differences between that and OC, but it is an example of where just because you have a right to do something, doesn't mean it is a good idea. Rights you abuse are rights you will lose.
 

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Sometimes it gets a bit old hearing, "Just because you have the right to do ______ doesn't mean it's smart to do it."

If you have the "right" to do something, then obvious there was a legitimate reason to establish that "right." One man's right can easily be another man's wrong. It's all a matter of opinion. Having nothing but "good" ideas would get boring for Youtube.
 

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Perhaps the most important thing we can do for freedom is to support the rights we DON'T like.... and the rights we do like exercised in ways we don't like.
 
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What I do have a problem with is people OC'ing and claiming it is their Right to do so in circumstances where they are wrong.
Wrong, by who's definition? Or do you mean illegal?

Wrong is a matter of OPINION. Illegal is a matter of LAW.

We're getting into an OC / CC argument here and I don't think that was the OP's intent?

@AzQkr?
 

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Discussion Starter #99
Wrong, by who's definition? Or do you mean illegal?

Wrong is a matter of OPINION. Illegal is a matter of LAW.

We're getting into an OC / CC argument here and I don't think that was the OP's intent?

@AzQkr?
correct sir
 

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That sounds like an invitation to get back on topic!

I was thinking that I don't discuss my 2A concerns with other people in any depth outside this forum. I enjoy arguing here, both sides of the issue. This is a nice collection of people with strong thoughts on the subject, people who have done some research, people who have given it some thought.

With my friends.....well, we're already like minded and will just shrug and say "thanks goodness for the second amendment", then get on to the more serious topic of where to scout for elk.

Here, however, there is a group of people who are willing to debate the nuances of the second amendment (or which caliber is best, or why a hammer gun is better than striker, etc.....) ad nauseam. So it's easy to join in the fun and have a lovely fight.

As I posted earlier, I don't focus on the second amendment in real life. But here on the internet, with y'all, I can pretend to be an expert and maybe just maybe, encounter a new idea or learn a new bit of history.

I think it's all good.
 
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