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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Real Title: An immigrant’s personal view of gun control
My Add.... (from NAZIs rules).
Posted: Monday, March 25, 2013 9:00 am

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When Henk Merison spoke of growing up in Holland when it was under the control of the Nazis, the memories brought a look of fear to the 81-year-old’s eyes.


.....As a member of the national and local Tea Party, Mr. Merison said he believes the state and national governments are altering the Second Amendment to the Constitution, which essentially protects the right to keep and bear arms.

.....He said his uneasiness stems from childhood memories when his home country was occupied by the Germans from 1940 to 1945. Shortly after the Germans invaded the Netherlands in May of 1940, pre-war lists of registered guns in Holland were used by the Nazis to confiscate firearms from homes. And therein lies Mr. Merison’s alarm with current registration.

.....“As George Santayana said ‘Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it,’” he said of the famous philosopher.

Read the rest, or lose your personal liberty: An immigrant?s personal view of gun control - Olean Times Herald: Editorial - An immigrant?s personal view of gun control: Editorial
 

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Registration is infringement. Buy, but verify.
 

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Any government, ours or others, given the chance to enslave its population without risking its own downfall, will do it.

Our founding fathers knew this with great clarity. At this time in the history of our nation we are seeing hard push toward just that. Granted its a bumbling stumbling push because many of the underlings cant be shot for messing up the effort as Hitler could. However the intent is the same.

I know many worry about fiscal this and that. Budgets etc and perhaps rightly so.
I myself however pay very little attention to that as presented by either side. The same smoke and mirrors, life would be better and our nation solvent and strong if only we ( pick a party) held the fiscal reins was I believe the beginning argument of Hitler himself. The Government isnt going to shut down. Not for real and not for long because it will sustain itself by hook or crook. That isnt the danger.

The danger is and its basic and not just because this is a gun forum. When 2A is infringed and finally is weakened enough and if we allow our weapons taken to the point we cannot mount an effective resistance long enough to get organized with whatever help is forthcoming from Military LE etc it WILL happen here. By force.
Any American who doubts that this Government is different than the others that rule by force without a gun pointed to its head to keep it honest is living in a dreamworld.
 

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I see only (2) possibilities.

1) Allow the current corrupt political system to run it's course and pray 2014 will remove many of the liberal far left politicians from office.
1a) ...thereby causing the current Pres to become a lame duck.

2) # (2) is quite scary if the current state of things continues. Many of us can read REAL history starting in 1936. Resistance movements starting etc...
such things are not welcome; though I believe may become necessary when the "People" believe they have exhausted all legal means.
 

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I am trying to see the analogy here...someone help me.

Germany invades Holland and consficates guns. They would do that anyway right? The registration would just make it easy for them to go to a specific house and ask where the guns are.

So....who is going to invade us and use a gun registration system to take our weapons away?

That is the analogy presented.
 
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I am trying to see the analogy here...someone help me.

Germany invades Holland and consficates guns. They would do that anyway right? The registration would just make it easy for them to go to a specific house and ask where the guns are.

So....who is going to invade us and use a gun registration system to take our weapons away?
The point being made is that knowing where the arms are makes it infinitely easier to go after them. Not that war/invasion/confiscation by a foreign power is likely, a la Holland in WWII.

Who, though? Our own temporarily-hired staff, or any other foreign power that realizes we've become weakened beyond the means to effectively resist. At which point, if gets decidedly simpler to track down what's wanted for confiscation: arms, "rebels," etc.
 

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So....who is going to invade us and use a gun registration system to take our weapons away?
I didn't see the article that way.
I believe the fear is a invasion from within..not a foreign entity.

Over reaching laws, Patriot Act, secret courts, secret judges, drones spying on the people and the list goes on.
No one would dare march against the U.S on our soil at this time; they don't have too as the socialist agenda is destruction from within.
We are already feeling the boot of oppression on our necks; not from "other" governments; but our own.
 

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The point being made is that knowing where the arms are makes it infinitely easier to go after them. Not that war/invasion/confiscation by a foreign is likely, a la Holland in WWII.

Who, though? Our own temporarily-hired staff, or any other foreign power that realizes we've become weakened beyond the means to effectively resist. At which point, if gets decidedly simpler to track down what's wanted for confiscation: arms, "rebels," etc.
I get the point. But it is no analogy by any stretch of the imagination. And does it really matter if we get invaded? (Don't get me wrong, I am totally against any registration). But let us just hypothesize there is an invasion (good Lord, I can't beleive I am even entertaining just a ridiculus idea). Every country knows we hav millions of weapons. Do you honestly think they will go door to door trying to find them with a list of names? If you were a soldier in any occupied country you would be ransacking the house looking for guns, not showing up with a list.

Yes Mr invading soldier, I did have a gun but I lost it in a boating accident........come on. There is a point where the argument for gun rights gets ridiculus.

We have more than enough justification than coming up with one of the most imporable event that could ever happen to our country. You and I have better chances of winning the lottery than a foriegn power invading the US.

Anyhoo, isn't that what was "suppose" to have stopped the Japanese..the fact they would be met with a rifle everywhere they went.
 
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I am trying to see the analogy here...someone help me.
So....who is going to invade us and use a gun registration system to take our weapons away?
We have already been "INVADED" only from within. We have been invaded by those who disagree with our Constitution and want to change who we are by either ignoring the existing Constitution or by making new laws that negate or bypass it.

IMHO, this is even worse than an invading army.
 

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I am trying to see the analogy here...someone help me.

Germany invades Holland and consficates guns. They would do that anyway right? The registration would just make it easy for them to go to a specific house and ask where the guns are.

So....who is going to invade us and use a gun registration system to take our weapons away?

That is the analogy presented.
We're being invaded from within.
 

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I get the point. But it is no analogy by any stretch of the imagination. And does it really matter if we get invaded? (Don't get me wrong, I am totally against any registration). But let us just hypothesize there is an invasion (good Lord, I can't beleive I am even entertaining just a ridiculus idea). Every country knows we hav millions of weapons. Do you honestly think they will go door to door trying to find them with a list of names? If you were a soldier in any occupied country you would be ransacking the house looking for guns, not showing up with a list.

Yes Mr invading soldier, I did have a gun but I lost it in a boating accident........come on. There is a point where the argument for gun rights gets ridiculus.

We have more than enough justification than coming up with one of the most imporable event that could ever happen to our country. You and I have better chances of winning the lottery than a foriegn power invading the US.

Anyhoo, isn't that what was "suppose" to have stopped the Japanese..the fact they would be met with a rifle everywhere they went.
We stopped the Japanese by giving them the choice between total annihilation or surrender.

How does NY confiscate things? They give you a choice between eventually getting 'caught' with something and throwing the book at you, or getting rid of it yourself. They'll keep taking a bite until you only have a duck hunting shotgun and then ducks will be put on the endangered species list.
 

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We stopped the Japanese by giving them the choice between total annihilation or surrender.

How does NY confiscate things? They give you a choice between eventually getting 'caught' with something and throwing the book at you, or getting rid of it yourself. They'll keep taking a bite until you only have a duck hunting shotgun and then ducks will be put on the endangered species list.
I know that about the Japanese, the notion that we had many guns in the hands of farmers was like 101 out of a list of 100 reasosn why invading the US would be hard, if not impossible. The Battle of Midway pretty much got rid of the idea anyway.

Anyway, I was talking about the OP's analogy which is not an analogy at all to what is going in America. I do not expect to get invaded anytime soon. Even the most die hard preppers put that at the bottom of the list.

All I am saying is for folks to address the issues and stop coming up with analogies that are simply not true.

Sure, I can buy the fact they want gun registrationso out own government can over time start diluting the amount of guns we have.

But an analogy of a invading army..........
 

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Everyone is focusing on invading armies.

The real point is that Gun Registration makes Gun Confiscation much easier.

Going house to house & searching without any idea if the owner ever had a weapon or not is a monumental task compared to only searching homes that are known to have weapons.
 
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Actually, though I admit it is petty, the title of the thread makes it sound like someone found a historical analogy....which they did not. Why don't we just say "gun registration is a gateway to gin confiscation". Instead of implying gun registration was what caused guns to be confiscated in Holland AFTER and invading Army conquered them.
2A- So, about that Hitler Analogy? Words from someone who lived it and Gun Control
It is not an anology and perpetuates nonsense.

Many here have eloquently described what the real issue is. I agree with some and disagree with parts of others. But why waste time starting a conversation on a false premise?

The simple fact is IMO is that if the US government will not go door to door with a list. With the amount of weapons in the US they would just go door to door...period.

They don't even have to have a registration to accomplish anythng. They can pass a law that says that all guns must be turned in. OK...so you don't. Then you use it for something like SD or HD. Whammo, they now have your gun and arrest you for having one illegaly. Where are you going to practice? Where wil you get ammo? What can you do with your gun with a total ban on them? How will you keep it a secret?

Bottom line is, yes, registration gives them a starting point. But honestly, many folks will register "a" gun out of 5 they have. The government is not that stupid. Registration or not, all the gov has to do is ban guns. Then you are in doo doo for having one.

Well, back to my project.....wife wants a greenhouse built by tonight!
 
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I oppose registration, but as I have said here before, with modern data-mining technology and all the bread crumbs all of us have left around the internet, not to mention all of the gun related mailing lists most of us are on and the fact that most of us have concealed carry permits, the government can assume with a very high degree of accuracy (well over 95% confidence interval) those of us who have guns. I understand where you are coming from in terms of objecting to a registry. Hell I feel the same way, but in reality, I think a government operated registration database would likely be no more accurate than what a good marketing guy could come up with using commercial means. I am not the only one who feels this way. Take a look at this recent post on TTAG from a guy who feels the same way Soon a Gun Registry May Be Unnecessary | The Truth About GunsThe Truth About Guns.
 

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Everyone is focusing on invading armies.

The real point is that Gun Registration makes Gun Confiscation much easier.

Going house to house & searching without any idea if the owner ever had a weapon or not is a monumental task compared to only searching homes that are known to have weapons.
Not everyone. Some are focusing on invasion from within. Actually, what's happening is a fairly mild manifestation of the evolution of the American experiment with the people and issues that we've always had - particularly since Roosevelt during a brutal time in our social history.
FDR was the greatest socialist this country ever knew. And the people loved him. Four terms!
His lesson to his emulators is that redistribution works. So, on the contemporary, cutting edge, strategic level, there is a fight between those who believe that government should have more of the control over our lives that is necessary to gain economic control and those who believe that people are ready again to vote for liberty (less taxes and regulations) and respect for the individual. The problem is that there is still a sizable bloc in this political debate who believe that government has the answer to social problems. Then there are those of us who don't.
Just make sure, in your transactions and interactions, that you respect yourself and your right to privacy. You are a powerful majority of one.

From bklynboy's link:
In this day and age we cannot separate our Second Amendment rights and our right to privacy. The destruction of either one would lead to the downfall of both and eventually all our rights.
-Christian Greiner
 

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The simple fact is IMO is that if the US government will not go door to door with a list. With the amount of weapons in the US they would just go door to door...period.
Rome wasn't built in a day. The invasion will come from withing by those who use votes as their weapon of choice. Anti Gun politicians who get elected on other platforms and who serve the people who truly believe that the go ernment is benevolent and will take care of them.

The real fact is that a large number of our elected representatives don't believe that guns should be in the hands of the working class, that they should be things reserved for the ruling class (themselves).

The only way to ensure this would be mandatory registration. And people would have to register them. Make it law that you cant shoot at a range without first providing your registration. Then outlaw them and make it mandatory for you to relinquesh your weapon. THEN they would go door to door to gather up whatever is left.
 

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The real fact is that a large number of our elected representatives don't believe that guns should be in the hands of the working class, that they should be things reserved for the ruling class (themselves).
And the real fact is that the majority of the "working class" don't realize that WE ARE the ruling group who've hired these people.

Well, we'll all reminisce by the fire once we've lost the ability to withstand predation of our rights, but by then it'll be too late. Hopefully people are waking up to that simple fact, too.

Foreign and domestic, that was the warning.

* I still can't get some of my closest family to awaken to the concept, that fewer victims aren't made by disarming potential victims ahead of time. They simply refuse to understand that erasure of the right to be armed threatens all we've built in 230 years, including keeping our temporary hirelings in line, including defending our very lives.
 

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And the real fact is that the majority of the "working class" don't realize that WE ARE the ruling group who've hired these people.

Well, we'll all reminisce by the fire once we've lost the ability to withstand predation of our rights, but by then it'll be too late. Hopefully people are waking up to that simple fact, too.

Foreign and domestic, that was the warning.

* I still can't get some of my closest family to awaken to the concept, that fewer victims aren't made by disarming potential victims ahead of time. They simply refuse to understand that erasure of the right to be armed threatens all we've built in 230 years, including keeping our temporary hirelings in line, including defending our very lives.
Our country has gone through phases in which there were witch hunts for the supposed
"domestic" enemies. These hunts have historically been political disasters.

Some participants in this thread misconstrue disagreement between equally patriotic
individuals with the notion that one of the two parties to the disagreement are disloyal.
Its a time honored propaganda trick, to demonize your political enemies, but it has
in the past at least backfired badly.

From the above citations--

"Senator McCarthy. Will counsel [i.e. Welch] for my benefit define – I think he might be an expert on that – what a pixie is?
Mr. Welch. Yes. I should say, Mr. Senator, that a pixie is a close relative of a fairy. (Laughter from the chamber) Shall I proceed, sir? Have I enlightened you?
Senator McCarthy. As I said, I think you may be an authority on what a pixie is."

House Un-American Activities Committee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Army?McCarthy hearings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Witch hunters have a tough time staying on the topic of the non-existent witches as is apparent from
the real dialogue (Congressional testimony) quoted above.

When you have to make up through your own imaginations internal enemies to blame for your
own troubles you are indeed not quite perceiving the real world.
 

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Our country has gone through phases in which there were witch hunts for the supposed
"domestic" enemies. These hunts have historically been political disasters.

Some participants in this thread misconstrue disagreement between equally patriotic
individuals with the notion that one of the two parties to the disagreement are disloyal.
Its a time honored propaganda trick, to demonize your political enemies, but it has
in the past at least backfired badly.

From the above citations--

"Senator McCarthy. Will counsel [i.e. Welch] for my benefit define – I think he might be an expert on that – what a pixie is?
Mr. Welch. Yes. I should say, Mr. Senator, that a pixie is a close relative of a fairy. (Laughter from the chamber) Shall I proceed, sir? Have I enlightened you?
Senator McCarthy. As I said, I think you may be an authority on what a pixie is."

House Un-American Activities Committee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Army?McCarthy hearings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Witch hunters have a tough time staying on the topic of the non-existent witches as is apparent from
the real dialogue (Congressional testimony) quoted above.

When you have to make up through your own imaginations internal enemies to blame for your
own troubles you are indeed not quite perceiving the real world.
And when "witches" by their own actions cause actual bruises on the foreheads of the People (destruction of liberty, as proven via their own written legislation), no imagined blame is necessary. McCarthy's a good example. The current crop of deliberate liberty-haters are too, however ostensibly well-meaning their "for the children" attempts are.

Hopefully the witch-hunting the anti-liberty folks are engaging in will prove a political disaster for them, sooner rather than later.

As for any claim that the hunters are those defending against those seeking to tear down liberty: fail.
 
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