Well I just got back from putting another 185rds through the Ultra CDP. It ran well but not perfectly. I ran 100rds of WWB and 85rds of Remington UMC 230gr JHP. It was nearly perfect with the WWB. I believe it had only 1 FTF w/ the WWB. With the UMC it had about 4 FTF's. Towards the end of the session it seemed to loosen up and not hiccup just like the first trip to the range the other day. One strage thing though. I felt it a few times the other day and several times today is that the gun will cycle very slowly. Almost like it's in slow motion. It will still function and ejects the casing and chambers a new round fine. In fact I don't think any of the FTF's were when the gun felt like it was cycling slowly. The gun was clean and lubed. The slide moves freely and smoothly and does not feel like it's hanging up on anything. When I think about it I believe it only does this when shooting the UMC. Could the UMC be a weaker load and cause this? Any ideas?
2nd range report.
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WWB .45 and UMC JHP .45 are equal
Out of curiosity I went to the Winchester and Remington Ammo websites and looked at the ballistics on Winchester White Box FMJ .45 and Remington UMC JHP .45, and they are identical. Both types push a 230 grain bullet at a muzzle velocity of 835 feet per second, for muzzle energy of 356 foot pounds.
So I don't think the problem with the UMC is less zip than the Winchester. I would suspect that the UMC hollowpoint is scraping on the feed ramp and slowing down the slide a bit.
Out of curiosity I went to the Winchester and Remington Ammo websites and looked at the ballistics on Winchester White Box FMJ .45 and Remington UMC JHP .45, and they are identical. Both types push a 230 grain bullet at a muzzle velocity of 835 feet per second, for muzzle energy of 356 foot pounds.
So I don't think the problem with the UMC is less zip than the Winchester. I would suspect that the UMC hollowpoint is scraping on the feed ramp and slowing down the slide a bit.
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I had similar experiences Saturday afternoon and yesterday afternoon. I am still breaking in my SIG P239 .357SIG. The first time I fired it the shots were about 4" left of point of aim. Wally World had only one 50 round box of the Winchester white box the day I was in there. Last week I ordered 500 rounds of Remington UMC. They came in on Thursday. I fired 50 Saturday afternoon before the rain. No FTEs, but 3 or 4 times the round hit very low on the target. By very low I mean 12" lower than the rest of the rounds. Yesterday I was able to fire another 50 before weather sent me home. The same thing 3 or 4 very low.
The pistol is breaking in and now most of the shots are 1.5 to 2" left of POA. In my report last night I blamed the low shots on my not being used to the night sights. At the time I was shooting I wondered if there were just some low power rounds in the box, but sort of decided to blame myself instead. Now with your comments I am back to wondering about the possibility of low power rounds. I may get to shoot some more before Saturday and if I do I am going to pay more attention to the feel of the shots.
BTW I have now fired the Winchester white box in the following calibers: .40, .357SIG, 9mm, 38 Special, .380 and .32 ACP and in each instance it appears that the projectiles may be wabbling when they hit the target. If I fire UMC, Magtech, or Wolf the holes are smooth and precise. The Winchester holes are always ragged. In fact a .32 ACP Winchester round fired from my Kel-Tec P32 makes a hole just about the same size as 9mm Remington. You really notice it when I am firing Remington .357SIG at one target and my wife is firing Winchester 9mm at a target next to mine. While still standing at the line looking at the targets you wonder why the .357 holes look so much smaller than the 9mm. When you look at the targets close up you realize that the .357 holes are smaller than the 9mm. Strange.
The pistol is breaking in and now most of the shots are 1.5 to 2" left of POA. In my report last night I blamed the low shots on my not being used to the night sights. At the time I was shooting I wondered if there were just some low power rounds in the box, but sort of decided to blame myself instead. Now with your comments I am back to wondering about the possibility of low power rounds. I may get to shoot some more before Saturday and if I do I am going to pay more attention to the feel of the shots.
BTW I have now fired the Winchester white box in the following calibers: .40, .357SIG, 9mm, 38 Special, .380 and .32 ACP and in each instance it appears that the projectiles may be wabbling when they hit the target. If I fire UMC, Magtech, or Wolf the holes are smooth and precise. The Winchester holes are always ragged. In fact a .32 ACP Winchester round fired from my Kel-Tec P32 makes a hole just about the same size as 9mm Remington. You really notice it when I am firing Remington .357SIG at one target and my wife is firing Winchester 9mm at a target next to mine. While still standing at the line looking at the targets you wonder why the .357 holes look so much smaller than the 9mm. When you look at the targets close up you realize that the .357 holes are smaller than the 9mm. Strange.
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This is just my opinion/experience , plus comments by people onpogo2 said:
other gun boards - so take it for what its worth.
Remington UMC ammo DOES have a reputation for being
underpowered compared to other brands - even other Remington
loads.
This is an often heard comment.
Keep in mind that ballistics posted by the factories are based on
tests under strict , unvarying conditions.
(barrel , temperature, barometric pressure. etc. )
You will hardly EVER duplicate them exactly with your pistol on an
open range.
Don't ever automatically assume that your function problems
are either gun or ammo related unless you have a point of reference.
Best thing is to try several brands of ammo in your gun at the
same range session - then stick with the one that functions
with no problems and use it exclusively for practice.
Do the same thing for your carry load.
The gun felt fine with the WWB so i guess I will stay away from the UMC. I have always like the WWB better anyway. I just wanted to try different ammo. It actually ran several mags of the UMC JHP with no problems at the end of my session although the cycling was slow.
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Remington UMC is on Kimber's recommended ammo list. I have an Ultra Carry, and it feeds and shoots just fine in mine. FWIW
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It was ball. Haven't tried their hollowpoint. But I have never shot anything other than defensive round hollowpoints in my Kimber, either .. and they have all fed well. Hydrashoks, Golden Saber.yellowv said:
Hopefully it was just the UMC. The slide was clean and lubed. Next range trip I will run only WWB or American Eagle or something and see if it happens at all. That probably wont be fora while though. I've spent a small fortune on ammo testing these friggin Kimbers. For now I am pretty confident that it will work if I need it to.Bud White said:
Well I just got back from my 3rd range outing. Ran about 200rds of WWB through it and it ran like a champ. I had 1 FTF which I think could have been due to the fact that it started pouring and the gun got wet. My buddy's Ultra which is always flawless even had 1 FTF. I also ran the last 15 rds of the UMC hollowpoints and they fed just fine as well. I think I finally got it broken in.
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Sounds like you've got it figured out. I gave up on UMC several years ago when I noticed how easy the bullets could suffer setback, sort of made me cringe so I've never bought another box of them. I've used WWB, Am Eagle, S&B (good stuff but really dirty), CCI Blazer and even Wolf steel cases. The Wolf I used had a rough texture to the cases I assume was the laquer they used. I had some FTF issues with that buyt have yet to try their new polymer coated cases, might make for inexpensive plinking if they function well.
Jack
Jack
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WINCHESTER w b stinks big time in both my SIG 45s ~ it's "OK" in my C. Commander but, I'll never buy it again.
I couldn't wait to shoot it up and get rid of it.
and WOLF - no comment.
Now having decent luck w/ American A-MERC .45 ACP FMJ
was going to buy another 1K bulk lot from Ammo Bank but, now out of stock.
I couldn't wait to shoot it up and get rid of it.
and WOLF - no comment.
Now having decent luck w/ American A-MERC .45 ACP FMJ
was going to buy another 1K bulk lot from Ammo Bank but, now out of stock.
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