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While I don't claim to know who specifically was responsible, the question that no one has been able to answer so far was this:

- no one is arguing that Freddy Gray's neck was NOT broken before he got in the van
- no one is arguing that his neck WAS broken at the end of the trip
- what happened between those two WHILE in police custody

I don't support prosecution just to put the blame on someone

However, I wouldn't really want to find out one day that a loved one in police custody is dead from physical trauma, no one knows why, and because of diffusion of responsibility there is no one to blame. Regardless what you think of a suspect or convict, that's not the way the justice system should operate.
 

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While I don't claim to know who specifically was responsible, the question that no one has been able to answer so far was this:

- no one is arguing that Freddy Gray's neck was NOT broken before he got in the van
- no one is arguing that his neck WAS broken at the end of the trip
- what happened between those two WHILE in police custody

I don't support prosecution just to put the blame on someone

However, I wouldn't really want to find out one day that a loved one in police custody is dead from physical trauma, no one knows why, and because of diffusion of responsibility there is no one to blame. Regardless what you think of a suspect or convict, that's not the way the justice system should operate.
Sometimes things happen, and the totality of things bring to bear that it was 100% accidental. There doesn't always have to be someone to blame. The system operated as it should, balancing fact against the law.
 
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While I don't claim to know who specifically was responsible, the question that no one has been able to answer so far was this:

- no one is arguing that Freddy Gray's neck was NOT broken before he got in the van
- no one is arguing that his neck WAS broken at the end of the trip
- what happened between those two WHILE in police custody

I don't support prosecution just to put the blame on someone

However, I wouldn't really want to find out one day that a loved one in police custody is dead from physical trauma, no one knows why, and because of diffusion of responsibility there is no one to blame. Regardless what you think of a suspect or convict, that's not the way the justice system should operate.
And this exactly what many people dont seem to get. A single judge is finding all these people not guilty. NOT a jury. There is no way someone without a biased opinion could sit here and look at the evidence, and say that the police did nothing wrong that day. There is no accounability for police actions.

Sometimes things happen, and the totality of things bring to bear that it was 100% accidental. There doesn't always have to be someone to blame. The system operated as it should, balancing fact against the law.
You don't accidentally, repeatedly decline someone medical care when they are having trouble breathing. You also dont accidently arrest someone for having an illegal knife when they dont have one.
 
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I'm beginning to see a pattern. Maybe it's time for Mosby to get the Nifong treatment. In the meantime what about the terrible emotional, professional, and financial damage to these police officers? How are they made whole again?
 

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If there was any evidence to support these charges, I'm sure NBC and CNN would have aired it hourly. I never saw or heard anything that supported them.

I know one thing for sure. I'm trust cops more than most others and certainly more than a criminal.
 

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It was obvious at the time the charges were announced that it was purely a political decision. One made to stop rioting & looting.

Glad the juries are doing their jobs. As to what makes these guys whole again? Nothing.
 

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I'm beginning to see a pattern. Maybe it's time for Mosby to get the Nifong treatment. In the meantime what about the terrible emotional, professional, and financial damage to these police officers? How are they made whole again?
They could start with thinking twice before coming up with BS reasons to arrest somoene, giving them a rough ride, violating department policies, and then denying them medical care.

It was obvious at the time the charges were announced that it was purely a political decision. One made to stop rioting & looting.

Glad the juries are doing their jobs. As to what makes these guys whole again? Nothing.
Juries? What juries?
 
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And this exactly what many people dont seem to get. A single judge is finding all these people not guilty. NOT a jury.
Yes, and?

There is no way someone without a biased opinion could sit here and look at the evidence, and say that the police did nothing wrong that day. There is no accounability for police actions.
They officers are not accused of "doing something wrong ..." They are accused of murder and other serious crimes. There is no evidence as yet to support such claims. LEO's are disciplined administratively regularly for wrongdoing. They are regularly fired. They are regularly jailed. So your statement that "there is no accountability ..." is absurd.

Interesting thought pattern though. You start by assuming that the officers are guilty, then when the facts and decisions of the judge don't support you, you claim that he must be biased. But, of course, there's no bias on your part right?

You don't accidentally, repeatedly decline someone medical care when they are having trouble breathing.
Just because someone complains that he's "having trouble breathing" does not mean that he is. It's a fairly common complaint and is often due to nothing more than having run from the police and having fought when caught. If someone is saying, "I can't breathe" they are, in fact, exchanging air. That's breathing! In order to talk, one must first take in air, inhaling. The act of speaking involves exhaling. Inhaling and exhaling together are breathing. If someone is UNABLE to breath, they can't say so, as in a case of a piece of food blocking the esophagus.

You also dont accidently arrest someone for having an illegal knife when they dont have one.
Already been discussed and disproven. The knife was illegal per city ordinance.

We’ve pretty much had this discussion before, here, http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/law-enforcement-military-homeland-security-discussion/254049-baltimore-officer.html

But you haven't changed your position even though it was then shown to be untenable. That discussion was deleted (I think) because it stopped being polite and professional, (I guess).
 

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Yes, and?
There is nothing to say the judge didnt have his mind made up before the trial started. Not saying thats the case, but its a possibility. The fact that each of the officers opted for there to not be a jury trial makes me wonder why.

They officers are not accused of "doing something wrong ..." They are accused of murder and other serious crimes. There is no evidence as yet to support such claims. LEO's are disciplined administratively regularly for wrongdoing. They are regularly fired. They are regularly jailed. So your statement that "there is no accountability ..." is absurd.
And yet they are going back to work...
So if the problem is improper charges being brought up, then why is nobody discussing that instead of the typical mentality of they were aquitted so everything they did was acceptable?

Interesting thought pattern though. You start by assuming that the officers are guilty, then when the facts and decisions of the judge don't support you, you claim that he must be biased. But, of course, there's no bias on your part right?
Im not biased. I followed the story.

Just because someone complains that he's "having trouble breathing" does not mean that he is. It's a fairly common complaint and is often due to nothing more than having run from the police and having fought when caught. If someone is saying, "I can't breathe" they are, in fact, exchanging air. That's breathing! In order to talk, one must first take in air, inhaling. The act of speaking involves exhaling. Inhaling and exhaling together are breathing. If someone is UNABLE to breath, they can't say so, as in a case of a piece of food blocking the esophagus.
We have been over this before. And you are as wrong now as you were then. Im sure you were told that with reference to a choking person. If you have a complete airway obstruction, you will not be able to talk. The same does not right true for a partial obstruction, or trouble breathing due to CNS damage, or other medical/trauma reasons.

Already been discussed and disproven. The knife was illegal per city ordinance.

We’ve pretty much had this discussion before, here, http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/law-enforcement-military-homeland-security-discussion/254049-baltimore-officer.html


But you haven't changed your position even though it was then shown to be untenable. That discussion was deleted (I think) because it stopped being polite and professional, (I guess).
Actually I posted the city ordinance, in another thread and it wasn't illegal.
 

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And this exactly what many people dont seem to get. A single judge is finding all these people not guilty. NOT a jury. There is no way someone without a biased opinion could sit here and look at the evidence, and say that the police did nothing wrong that day. There is no accounability for police actions.



You don't accidentally, repeatedly decline someone medical care when they are having trouble breathing. You also dont accidently arrest someone for having an illegal knife when they dont have one.
The bit about the knife is more of Mosby's shenanigans. While the knife is legal by state law the city of Baltimore has it's own law under which the knife is illegal.

But of course if she were to acknowledge that fact it would wipe out her argument the arrest never should have happened and it all goes out the window.
 

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The bit about the knife is more of Mosby's shenanigans. While the knife is legal by state law the city of Baltimore has it's own law under which the knife is illegal.

But of course if she were to acknowledge that fact it would wipe out her argument the arrest never should have happened and it all goes out the window.
I said in the post above, I posted the city ordinance in another thread. The knife was NOT illegal.
 

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And this exactly what many people dont seem to get. A single judge is finding all these people not guilty. NOT a jury. There is no way someone without a biased opinion could sit here and look at the evidence, and say that the police did nothing wrong that day. There is no accounability for police actions.



You don't accidentally, repeatedly decline someone medical care when they are having trouble breathing. You also dont accidently arrest someone for having an illegal knife when they dont have one.
The judge in "question" is black. He's also a prior prosecutor that went HARD after corrupt police officers...since you brought up "bias", he's biased against corrupt law enforcement officers so these decisions should have gone against the officers in question. They aren't because he's ruling on the FACTS and EVIDENCE presented, NOT on emotion.

Mosby and the state decided to "go for broke" and filed charges MUCH higher than the evidence supported...kind of like that loser Casey Anthony in Florida several years ago. They went for too high of a charge against her, and couldn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt against her due to the facts presented.
 

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The judge in "question" is black. He's also a prior prosecutor that went HARD after corrupt police officers...since you brought up "bias", he's biased against corrupt law enforcement officers so these decisions should have gone against the officers in question. They aren't because he's ruling on the FACTS and EVIDENCE presented, NOT on emotion.
Yet he went full Comey. The officer violated the policy, but if he didnt know what the policy was, we cant hold him accountable for it, because he didn't necessarily intend to violate a policy that contributed to grays death. And what difference does it make if the judge is black?

Mosby and the state decided to "go for broke" and filed charges MUCH higher than the evidence supported...kind of like that loser Casey Anthony in Florida several years ago. They went for too high of a charge against her, and couldn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt against her due to the facts presented.
I have considered this as a possibility as well.
 

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The DOJ may certainly review everything, and if the Judge is believed to be biased, incompetent, or did not apply the law correctly, then I am certain they will make everything fine. I, for one, would usually prefer a trial by Judge than Jury.
 

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The DOJ may certainly review everything, and if the Judge is believed to be biased, incompetent, or did not apply the law correctly, then I am certain they will make everything fine. I, for one, would usually prefer a trial by Judge than Jury.
If you dont mind me asking, why is that? Just curious.
 

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I know one thing for sure. I'm trust cops more than most others and certainly more than a criminal.
It's getting more difficult every day to tell the two apart.
 
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