Depends on the range, choke and type of shot used. A slug or 00 Buckshot is going to go right thru like a hot knife thru butter. I might suggest a 20 or even a 410 with open choke and bird shot. At close ranges inside an apt, bird shot is not going to have the opportunity to disperse so it will likely have a fatal result. It's best if the perp get's the full load so that there will be even less likelihood of overpenetration.:banana:Justin said:Maybe I should consider a shotgun then?
would that be less likely to penetrate?
Euclidean said:ExSoldier I'm going to have to cross paths with you on this one.
Glaser Safety Slugs may have their time and place but I'm convinced that defending my person in the middle of the night isn't one of them. Check out the box O' truth when they shoot the Glaser into the jugs of water... that wouldn't stop somebody not reliably.
As for the small bore shotgun with the birdshot load, I don't buy that either. Those loads are deliberately engineered to NOT inflict trauma so they don't tear your little bitty bird up.
I am convinced that planning your living space around its vulnerable points, practicing clearing the structure, and using the right tools for the job is a recipe for success.
And I would not use a shotgun unless it's all that I had. I'm accountable for each and every one of those pellets. That said when times were leaner I did use a shotgun because it's all I had.
The only thing that's going to stop projectiles reliably is the body of the meth head who broke in. My plan is to use that as a backstop and fire as few shots as possible.
I honestly think if one wanted the optimal gun, one should take a cue from the professionals and either go with the M4 style rifle and get some frangible loads for it, or heck I've even been thinking the M1 Carbine would be ideal for this situation: accurate, right overall length, considerably more powerful than a handgun, etc.
I almost bought one of those 410 pump guns with the forend pistol grip for myself. :danceban: Nice gun.Justin said:I'm liking the 20 gauge with birdshot idea. I'll be in a studio apartment probably sleeping in a sleeping bag until my gf comes so we can afford more. There's really no cover or any place to hide so if anyone did break in, I'd really have no choice at all but to defend myself. I'll see what kind of a discount I can get on a mossberg 20 gause when I get there. Thanks guys!
How about this? Look at the very bottom one
Nobody's asking you to stake YOUR life on this, Euc and nobody is saying you're wrong, either. We're trying to give advice where it was requested within some very narrow parameters.:wave:Euclidean said:Look let me ask you guys a question or two.
First, if 20 gauge loaded with birdshot will do the job reliably, then why don't the police and military use it? They use shotguns for the same application a homeowner would. Cops have to operate at ranges far in excess of that found in an apartment and they also have be meet certain state standards.
I can agree that if we're sub Tueller distances the spread isn't going to be much, but if I were a bettin' man I'd say that the birdshot would make an awful lot of shallow holes. It would look nasty and the guy would probably bleed to death if EMTs weren't present PDQ, but I am dubious it would actually stop someone. I think this is one of those apophrycal tales much like the use of rock salt. At close range I think a load of birdshot would take a man's head clean off.
Second, how many people use say a .45 caliber pistol with an extended magazine as a home defense gun... quite a few I would imagine. Is that a poor choice? I submit it is not, I use a very similar pistol for my personal defense every day as do many others. The argument has been made that in the area of home defense, the handgun allows you the survival time to reach the shotgun, which has been the priemere tool in this role for over 150 years. I feel well armed with a 45, but I'd feel comfortable with my Benelli 12!
Now how is a long arm that delivers 2 or 3 times the power a worse choice? The key in an apartment remains overpenetration not just of inside walls wherein the potential victim is a family member but through an outside wall, ceiling or floor to threaten others.
I'm left scratching my head at this one. 20 gauges for for mutant squirrel attacks. :spankme: :image035:
I'll pose a final question to you guys: I don't have any one there to worry about but myself. I could probably use the shotgun to great effect. However what happens when you wake up and find a hostage situation? Still feel good about that shotgun? That's easy, dump the shot and load slug. At that range with my Benelli M121 I can't miss!
I'm not trying to be defeatist, I just don't think that a small bore shotgun loaded with anything but a slug or buckshot is something I want to stake my life on.
Bare Ballistic Gel doesn't measure the factor of Shock and I'll bet a faceload of birdshot will induce not only shock but may extract the total life force as a further result. Translation; SHOCK CAN KILL.AutoFan said:The ol' "M1 Carbine isn't a manstopper" myth. It's a 110 grain, 30 caliber bullet travelling at ~2000 fps out of the muzzle. That's about the same as a 7.62X39 at 100 yards. Or 600 fps faster than a 7.62x25 out of a Tokarev or VZ-52. Or 800 fps faster than any 9mm. And JHP's and softpoints are available from Remington and Federal. What it suffers from is a lack of ammo manufacturers producing loads in the lastest and greatest bullets. Think of the above stats with a DPX from Cor-bon or some similar state of the art bullets.
Having said that, I remember an article by Chuck Taylor where he tested various popular handgun, rifle and shotgun calibers against interior wall construction. Aside from 22lr, they ALL penetrated several walls. So either don't miss, or have a backstop.
BTW, every test I've seen on birdshot shows it does not penetrate past 7 inches in bare ballistic gel. Which means a messy wound, but not one that will stop.