Defensive Carry banner

21 - 39 of 39 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,580 Posts
If this is just home defense, why not a rifle? Something like a Ruger 10/22 would be perfect. No need to stick with a handgun unless it’s going to be concealed. There is literally zero recoil, and it’s not super loud. Even less if you throw a can on it. A red dot, flashlight, and rim fire can would make it pretty much perfect. A BX-25 magazine full of CCI Mini Mags should get the job done.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
700 Posts
Discussion Starter #23
If this is just home defense, why not a rifle? Something like a Ruger 10/22 would be perfect. No need to stick with a handgun unless it’s going to be concealed. There is literally zero recoil, and it’s not super loud. Even less if you throw a can on it. A red dot, flashlight, and rim fire can would make it pretty much perfect. A BX-25 magazine full of CCI Mini Mags should get the job done.
Yep, I hear you. I have a Ruger 10/22 Sporter too. I just can't get her to shoot it much. She definitely shoots it well enough though at 10-15 yards. She can put an entire BX-25 into about a 6" circle. I put a set of XS ghost ring sights on it. Definitely shows more interest in shooting pistol when we go to the range. Gotta pander to the interests she does have.

---

I thought I should update this thread as I finally got to the range this afternoon to check my latest set of loads.


- 4.1gr of Bullseye, 90gr XTP; Very mild recoil. I shot about 4 magazines. Mostly one-handed both left hand and off-hand. Very controllable. One failure to feed when purposely shooting off-hand and trying to limp wrist it.

- 4.2gr of Bullseye, 90gr XTP; Same, shot about four mags of this. Back to some flashy loads and I could tell they were not subsonic. Still the recoil was definitely below just some generic 115gr WWB I brought along too.

Also noteworthy; While I was there I also tried about 30-40 rounds of Hornady 115gr FMJ that I loaded up too. I'm beginning to think that there is something magical about 9mm and Bullseye around 4.0-4.2gr. I was just playing around doing double taps at about six yards and two magazines worth was about 80% in the black on a NRA B2 target. And running it out past the 50ft mark I still kept about three mags worth on something that I could cover with my stretched out palm. Plenty accurate for just shooting off-hand. Curiously the felt recoil on the 4.2gr under this 115FMJ seemed lower than the 4.2 under the 90gr XTP.

I think the next step is to load some more at 4.1gr and have my wife actually shoot them...probably run them across my chrono too, but that likely isn't happening until spring thaw. It was about 5F when I got up this morning. I'm so sick of this danged global warming.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
90 gr. XTP/Bullseye 9mm load

Between fooling around with database cleanup and server/router reboots this weekend I finally got a chance to run over the one of the local ranges and test a little pet project I got in my noggin about a month or two ago.

Goal; For years I've been trying to get my wife to shoot something other than .22lr in a handgun. The main reason so she has something with a little more punch if I'm out of town on business. My thought after looking over my reloading manuals was that I could probably turn a subcompact 9mm into a ".380 +p" pistol by loading a lighter 90 grain bullet down around the starting load for 9mm in my reloading manuals. As an added bonus, the extra 4-6oz found in a 9mm should make it an even nicer shooter than all of the 380 pocket pistols running around now.

This will be sort of a transitional practice round that could be pressed into service for home defense in a pinch, with the end goal being to get my wife comfortable with a little more recoil without having to spend a buck a round on the "lite" recoil defensive loads available. I'll then eventually get her to regular 9mm factory ammo. Baby steps. Heck if this works maybe I can even get her to take the CCW class (She has an interest, but only with her .22)

---

The load; Is a 9mm cartridge using the 90 grain Hornady XTP. It is seated to 1.085" and underneath the bullet I used 4.5 grains of Alliant Bullseye powder. The starting load in my Hornady 10th edition manual is 4.4gr, in my Lyman 48th for a Sierra 90gr is 4.1gr, and Alliant's data is max charge of 5.0gr under a Speer 90gr Gold Dot, so I figured 4.5 should be a good medium load that should reliably cycle the action.

---

The gun; My Glock 43, bone stock aside from Ameriglo Hackathorn sights. 3.4" barrel. I've put about 1k rounds through it now and the trigger has smoothed out pretty nicely.

---

The results; Shooting was just two-hand, kind of off hand and unsupported in any other way. At an indoor range at 25ft, shooting about one second per round it grouped about 2.5-3". I ran five magazines through it. And bumped it out to about 15 yards for one magazine. I got about a 5" group there. I also fired some Hornady 115 FMJ ammo I loaded too as sort of a control to compare against.

It was interesting comparing the 90gr to the 115gr ball ammo. Definitely more felt recoil in the FMJ, and the 90 grain XTP's didn't seem like much more than hot 22's from her Bersa. What was curious is that this 90 grain load is what I can only describe as a little "flashy" with a much louder boom-crack to it but much lighter push and recoil of the pistol. Some of this might be less bearing surface therefore less neck tension and the bullet was leaving the barrel a little early? More likely though because it was just going super sonic and perhaps a little extra gas escaping out the end of the barrel.

Anyway, all rounds fired. No failures to eject nor to feed the next round. No signs of excessive pressure and the primers looked very nice. When working up a load like this I usually write on the outside of the case with a Sharpee. So most of the cases my chicken scratch "4.5 BE" was completely gone. I found seven though that were still legible. Seems like the brass is sealing well. A few had a little bit of scorching around the case mouth here and there, but that's Bullseye for you. The pistol cleaned up just fine last night. No unburned flakes found in the gun or brass.

I think I'm going to try and step it down to around 4.1-4.2 grains of Bullseye next range visit and see if I can get the flash-bang at the end of the barrel to disappear next. My end goal is to have a light recoiling load, that shoots clean and accurate out to a reasonable distance...say under 5" at 20 yards. Something right around 1000fps should also be enough to consistently get it to open up through denim and more than 12" of jello penetration...at least going off of ShootingtheBull's .380 XTP tests.

I'll try to remember and post an update when I've done some further testing. Any feedback welcome (including cheap shots and wisecracks).[/QUOTE

I've been searching for an XTP 90 gr, 9mm load for a few days and stumbled upon this thread. I was thinking pretty much the same thing. I wanted to cook-up a light-recoiling load for my wife's and daughter's Taurus G2's.
They both have access to a micro 380, but have NO desire to carry, let alone SHOOT the uber light pistol-even with mild, practice loads. So, whoever said, you don't need to reinvent the wheel-just shoot the 380, does NOT understand some shooters reluctance to touch them. Both my gals can shoot the G2 comfortably due to the added weight, better ergonomics, and sights. However, they aren't fans of the self-defense loads I have, again, due to the snappy recoil. So I'm hoping, with some experimenting along the lines you've mentioned, to find the "Goldilocks" load they can shoot with confidence. As you've mentioned, I'll start at 4.4-4.5 grains of Bullseye and see how they function and go from there. Thanks for your post!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38,097 Posts
The only 9mm I reload is 4.1 grains of HP-38 under a MBC 124-grain LRN. That's my mild range load and I'm sticking to it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,076 Posts
Whoa, Son! The Hornady book says 3.4 max. I would not imagine 4.1! Not in my little LCP.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38,097 Posts
Whoa, Son! The Hornady book says 3.4 max. I would not imagine 4.1! Not in my little LCP.
Hodgdon says 3.9 - 4.4 for a 125-grain LCN. Not pushing it hard.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
700 Posts
Discussion Starter #29
I've been searching for an XTP 90 gr, 9mm load for a few days and stumbled upon this thread. I was thinking pretty much the same thing. I wanted to cook-up a light-recoiling load for my wife's and daughter's Taurus G2's.
They both have access to a micro 380, but have NO desire to carry, let alone SHOOT the uber light pistol-even with mild, practice loads. So, whoever said, you don't need to reinvent the wheel-just shoot the 380, does NOT understand some shooters reluctance to touch them. Both my gals can shoot the G2 comfortably due to the added weight, better ergonomics, and sights. However, they aren't fans of the self-defense loads I have, again, due to the snappy recoil. So I'm hoping, with some experimenting along the lines you've mentioned, to find the "Goldilocks" load they can shoot with confidence. As you've mentioned, I'll start at 4.4-4.5 grains of Bullseye and see how they function and go from there. Thanks for your post!
Sorry, I saw this the other day, but had just returned from a 20+ hour drive.

I have done some more experimentation with this 4.1gr Bullseye load under the 90gr XTP since I last posted. Recoil seems pretty mild now, no more feed/extraction issues. But I'm still getting a bit too much flash-bang. About every other shot looks like something out of the movies. So I tried moving up to using the 115 FMJ from Hornady and it's still a bit too flashy, but less so than the 90gr. Same results from a second Glock 43, and also a PPQ.

I think I'm going to try and step it down one more notch to 3.8gr of Bullseye and maybe back out the seating die just a smidge...maybe about 1.125". I might tighten the crimp up just a tad too. Like an 1/16 turn. If it cycles I'll test accuracy and run it over the chrono. I think from a 9mm with a 3.4" barrel I should be right around 1000fps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
700 Posts
Discussion Starter #30
Yesterday a buddy and I were over at the range for a few hours running through multiple 9mm loads in multiple powders in several different pistols.

I think I'm giving up on 90gr XTP's in the Glock 43. I stepped down some more but ran into reliability issues getting it to eject the empty case and pick up the next cartridge. Still, it was helpful. What I saw though I think I might try 3.5gr of Bullseye under 115gr, 124gr and 147gr XTP's next. There might be enough weight in the heavier bullets to "push" against and reliably cycle the slide. I know there is in 147 gr JHP's because I've done it before a few years back.

So hat tips to @TX expat and @Aquaman. I think you guys are probably right and heavier bullet w/ lighter fast burning powder charge is the way to go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,522 Posts
The mildest 9mm load I have come up with, is 3.3 grains of AA#2 under a 124 gr. Bayou Bullets Hi-Tek coated bullet. The recoil is almost nil, and the brass just dribbles out at my feet. One caution, is that this load is slightly under most book starting loads, so in somebody else's pistol it might stick a bullet in the barrel. I shot it out of a G43 and it worked for me.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
18,555 Posts
The CZ75, Bryan?
Yep. It was the January San Angelo Silver Spur gun show. Felt pretty "studly" stalking around the concourse in the middle of the night totin' a pistol having the capacity of two Model 10 Smith & Wessons plus a J-Frame Smith & Wesson.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
OKAY scooters,
First as was stated the heavier 9x19 will help with perceived recoil. Second even a lite 9x19 can have more on the receiving end then a standard 380 (idea is to minimize recoil) Third to meet a specfic power factor usually depemding on, brass, OAL, specfic bullet and of course powder and even primer a heavier bullet does provide less recoil and less of a recoil impulse. THAT was not what the Original Goal was. There are factory 9x19 loads with 90 gr bullets that shoot 1300fps that dont seem to recoil anymore than a 38SPC wadcutter. There are others that are faster still. I have loaded warm 9x17in an old school 230S that has some weight compared to todays 380s and even some 9x19 or even their 40/357 counterparts. You can feel those and they were by the book where as a lite 9x19 can still provide more vel with less of a recoil impulse. It just dep[ends on how lite the reloaded ammo is. Now for any that have issues with needing a heavier load you might want to check in order grip (not just for lmp wristing, but to see if your thumb is rubbing the slide or engaging the slide stop - have some one watch for all) next make sure you have a functional mag that works in someone elses pistol with the same loads, than have some shoot your pistoll and you shoot theirs. If all is good try a reduced recoil spring or send it back to Glock. With a closet full of Glocks no such issue and I load powder puff loads. My Glocks nor e dozens of others that have tried my load have had issues with me, them or my elementary school kids (M/F). Something is out of whack.

Folks those that dont to the OPs post might think they are funny, but a poster who is asking for advice isn't looking for a silly arse response.

I only joined this site because the OP was not getting prudent feedback. I know this thrid is 13 months old, but hey; I just read the post. I hope the OP is still around to see not everyone is posting to run up their post count or to bemuse their self.

To the OP I say great job and I still have a partial box of GDs and a few boxs of Seirras and Hornadys. I am loading them warm becasue they are destructive that way and have less felt recoil than 115s by a lot.

OP - Your plan is sound. If you are concerned about the pistol cycling get an install a lighter recoil spring.

Geez - they really came out of the woodwork didn't they?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Oh - load those 90 gr .355s in the 38 SPC if you can find load data. They will be soft If they don't tumble load and shoot and repeat.Better get some 38 long or short brass - if you can find load data.

Best with your quest. I hope your wife is now shooting something other than a 22rf. I would try 147 gr reloads / factory and see how she likes it. If you reload it and have good reloading practice and habits and if you are comfortable I would recommend a fast powder and if not a medium powder with the advice to not reload. You already said you were using BE I believe so hopefully you have good practices and habits.

Post back and let us know how your endeavor turned out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,587 Posts
Hopefully she will check it out and works for her. If not, a .22 is still better than a .00. I recall an incident with an officer where the suspect was shot a number of times with either a .40 or .45. He shot the officer once with a .22 and the officer died. Shot placement is still king, but I still prefer at least a service caliber, .380 or larger. The .22 can still do the job of sending the threat to flight.
 
21 - 39 of 39 Posts
Top