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Yeah it goes right into some nasty wounds.

What I'll rememember most is the part where the .45 HP shot into the guy's sternum and stopped millimeters before reaching the heart and therefore survives. FMJ and he probably would have been long gone.
 

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OP, this is significant. And is the reason I have been preaching the doctrine of large caliber, or heavy for caliber bullets since joining this forum.

But I'm afraid this will mostly fall on deaf ears. People are too infatuated with marketing claims and gellatin tests to understand that the very nature of a HP is to stop inside the body, and they are more tuned into the expansion and jagged petals and fall for a false sense of security that these will produce amazing damage enough to reliably stop the threat.

It's not just about shot placement. It's not about expansion.
It's about punching holes in blood swollen organs and causing massive blood loss, or crushing supporting bones that get in the way.
But the projectile has got to penetrate from any angle to do it.

All these advances in bullet design have been to cut risk of over penetration for LE and reduce lawsuit risk.
The better they get for this purpose, the worse they get.
 

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I am of the "Old School" and keep in mind that the .45 ACP in FMJ is what the Military originally settled on as the "Best" stopping power (killing power) for their hand gun of choice that lasted more than 70 years.
Also it made the "Trench gun" of the day after WWI in the form of the M1A1 "Tommy gun". And used throughout WWII.

The only good reason to use .45 ACP JHP is in an attempt to minimize collateral damage, not for better knock down power.
 

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I agree completely Glockman.
 

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Ball would not be my first choice, however, it has a good history.

In my opinion for civilian carry market, the ammo makers should make a soft lead flat nose bullet driven at 700-950fps( depending on caliber), and make it at the heavy end of the weight scale.
In this they would have a real good offering.
But they won't, because then they can't justify high prices, and the Chief of Police Assn and every other out of step bureaucratic agencies would not accept it.

But mostly, you could make it yourself at home.
 

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Great video. It was worth watching twice.

Thanks for posting it.
 

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Ball would not be my first choice, however, it has a good history.

In my opinion for civilian carry market, the ammo makers should make a soft lead flat nose bullet driven at 700-950fps( depending on caliber), and make it at the heavy end of the weight scale.
In this they would have a real good offering.
But they won't, because then they can't justify high prices, and the Chief of Police Assn and every other out of step bureaucratic agencies would not accept it.

But mostly, you could make it yourself at home.
Gman, we already have ranges starting to restrict lead bullets, and CA has introduced legislation to ban lead projectiles. Unfortunately, lead is being criminalized/demonized almost as much as firearms ownership.
 

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IUnteresting video..... learned some new stuff...and also to not shoot myself in the knee with a SBR....
 

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I am of the "Old School" and keep in mind that the .45 ACP in FMJ is what the Military originally settled on as the "Best" stopping power (killing power) for their hand gun of choice that lasted more than 70 years.
Also it made the "Trench gun" of the day after WWI in the form of the M1A1 "Tommy gun". And used throughout WWII.

The only good reason to use .45 ACP JHP is in an attempt to minimize collateral damage, not for better knock down power.
Don't forget that the military was not allowed to use expanding ammunition, and even if they were, expanding bullets in 1908 were a whole different animal.

I know no one likes one-shot stop percentages, but in this case, they're instructive. .45 FMJ, about 70%, .45 HP, about 95%. You can argue wound theory and look at anecdotal evidence all day long, but I've seen no data to suggest that FMJ has BETTER stopping power than HP. If anyone has, let me know where to find it.
 
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Bullet molds are cheap, and lead is even cheaper.

I've got all the stuff, but have only made a few batches (still have quite a few).

I prefer sending the Speer kids to college!
 

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Ball would not be my first choice, however, it has a good history.

In my opinion for civilian carry market, the ammo makers should make a soft lead flat nose bullet driven at 700-950fps( depending on caliber), and make it at the heavy end of the weight scale.
In this they would have a real good offering.
But they won't, because then they can't justify high prices, and the Chief of Police Assn and every other out of step bureaucratic agencies would not accept it.

But mostly, you could make it yourself at home.
So why do folks like Buffalo Bore insist on making hard cast SWCs? :confused:
 

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This does lend credence to the old western story/joke: "Did you hear about the guy with a handgun who committed suicide? No, what happened? Yeah, he drew down on a guy with a rifle."
 

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In my opinion for civilian carry market, the ammo makers should make a soft lead flat nose bullet driven at 700-950fps( depending on caliber), and make it at the heavy end of the weight scale.
Not soft, but it packs a wallop: Buffalo Bore.

For whatever reason, I have more confidence in this round than a JHP.
 

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I guess for me the question is simple. Apart from some hopped up junkie, how many attackers are going to keep coming at you after the shots start, especially if they take a hit or two? HP, FMJ, caliber of choice, etc? And I don't pretend to know the answer but my gut is that unless there is a 'personal' motivation for the attack ( as opposed to perceived opportunity), not many. So for me I have 50-100 rounds of HP type ammo for each carry piece but the rest of my ammo is FMJ. I doubt I'll ever need to fire in self defense but if it gets to a place SHTF where I'm at 50+ rounds fired, I'm thinking I'm probably not walking out of there and FMJ will pass the time remaining.
 

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Don't forget that the military was not allowed to use expanding ammunition, and even if they were, expanding bullets in 1908 were a whole different animal.

I know no one likes one-shot stop percentages, but in this case, they're instructive. .45 FMJ, about 70%, .45 HP, about 95%. You can argue wound theory and look at anecdotal evidence all day long, but I've seen no data to suggest that FMJ has BETTER stopping power than HP. If anyone has, let me know where to find it.
Never seen stats like that before, will look but would appreciate any link you may know of.
 

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.45 ACP ball ammo doesn't have a great track record of one shot stops in civilian shootings...a little better than 9mm ball but not stellar. It seems to be an article of faith in some circles that the .45 is a "man-stopper" but when the rubber meets the road it appears to about the same as the 9mm and .40 S&W. A hole poked thru a non-vital area won't slow someone down much, whether that hole is .355" or .452". The extra 0.1" inch isn't really all that much. All else being equal, the 9mm does penetrate better.

Before I get flogged, I'll say for the record that I have a .45 and am a fan. I'm just under no illusion that it's a "death ray." If trouble finds me at home, I'll grab my .45 or 9mm if it's the only thing close at hand but if there's time I'll be grabbing the 870 Remington.
 

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A hole poked thru a non-vital area won't slow someone down much, whether that hole is .355" or .452". The extra 0.1" inch isn't really all that much.
Maybe sometimes the effect of .1" is greater than .1"?
The KE of typical 9mm (including +P) and 45 acp is from ~300 - 400#
What about typical momentum?
115 gr. @ 1,150 fps = .59
230 gr. @ 850 fps = .87
Comparing typical FMJ (just .1" difference in diameter) the 45 hits 32% harder, carries 32% more momentum.
KE is about equal.
"only" .1'' difference in diameter
Does 32% more momentum matter?
 
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