Defensive Carry banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,569 Posts
I liked the video. I don't think it matters how you shoot (stance is completely pointless as a guy in a wheelchair), but how often you shoot. Nothing makes you better at something than repeating it over and over. Adjust as necessary of course, but do it based on your own situation and comfort. 50 years ago, shooting with one hand was taught as the default way to "do it right". Now it's whichever stance taught by whichever school you belong to, elbows bent, gun thrust forward, blah blah blah. 50 years from now it'll be thought of as obsolete too. All that training and effort just to push your finger backwards on a lever and hang on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,116 Posts
There is a reason the US Marine Corps produces (or did) some of the very best initial marksman in the world.Stance does count. Bone to muscle contact points of support does count.It is the same for pistol........... fundamentals do count.Show me some one that has not learned toapply them, and I'll show you someone limiting their potential.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,569 Posts
There is a giant difference between what you're describing as basically a Marine Scout Sniper (or maybe even Olympic shooting) and learning to shoot effectively enough to defend yourself or hunt a deer, Glockman. Fundamentals 99% of us think about are trigger control and grip. Stance is hardly even thought of outside places like Thunder Ranch and Gunsite (and of course internet forums). The guy was talking basics, the "meat" of the matter. Let's keep things in context here. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that you're using an extreme example for the intended message.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,116 Posts
There is a giant difference between what you're describing as basically a Marine Scout Sniper (or maybe even Olympic shooting) and learning to shoot effectively enough to defend yourself or hunt a deer, Glockman. Fundamentals 99% of us think about are trigger control and grip. Stance is hardly even thought of outside places like Thunder Ranch and Gunsite (and of course internet forums). The guy was talking basics, the "meat" of the matter. Let's keep things in context here. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that you're using an extreme example for the intended message.
Negative.

Proper fundamentals do matter, regardless of what you are doing.
Do you think FAST Marines or SOC units use only rifles?

There are people who are self taught that get by just fine. Hell, you can even say they are good.
But with a grounding in fundamentals they can be better.

Sorry, but that's the way it is.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,957 Posts
There is a giant difference between what you're describing as basically a Marine Scout Sniper (or maybe even Olympic shooting) and learning to shoot effectively enough to defend yourself or hunt a deer, Glockman. Fundamentals 99% of us think about are trigger control and grip. Stance is hardly even thought of outside places like Thunder Ranch and Gunsite (and of course internet forums). The guy was talking basics, the "meat" of the matter. Let's keep things in context here. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that you're using an extreme example for the intended message.
I have to be mindful of my stance during every range session. It makes a noticeable difference for me, YMMV.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,186 Posts
There is a giant difference between what you're describing as basically a Marine Scout Sniper (or maybe even Olympic shooting) and learning to shoot effectively enough to defend yourself or hunt a deer, Glockman. Fundamentals 99% of us think about are trigger control and grip. Stance is hardly even thought of outside places like Thunder Ranch and Gunsite (and of course internet forums). The guy was talking basics, the "meat" of the matter. Let's keep things in context here. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that you're using an extreme example for the intended message.
Fundamentals is every thing in shooting, in rifle, shotgun and pistol. If it isn't, your foundation is shaky. I was taught that before the internet forums.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,569 Posts
I'm still of the opinion that the video was meant to say that you'll be a better shooter by doing things the right way for you personally, but we can agree to disagree. I'm not about to sit here and say I know better than those of you who have trained at these great schools, or who have put their boots in the mud and sand. Maybe I completely misunderstood the OP *shrug* Sorry if I ruffled any feathers fellas.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,399 Posts
Negative.

Proper fundamentals do matter, regardless of what you are doing.
Do you think FAST Marines or SOC units use only rifles?

There are people who are self taught that get by just fine. Hell, you can even say they are good.
But with a grounding in fundamentals they can be better.

Sorry, but that's the way it is.
Glockman is absolutely correct, its fundamental marksmanship 101. It doesn't matter if you are a marine scout sniper, a space shuttle door gunner or a guy trying to shoot a beer can off of a fence post. The fundamentals of marksmanship do apply ( always apply) and if you simply don't know about it or choose to dismiss it, then you do so at your own measurable loss.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,480 Posts
It does matter how you shoot! Yes, you can make progress while violating fundamental principles but it will be a much longer process of trial and error and progress will be limited. Proper fundamentals allow you to maximize your abilities. The science of shooting has evolved over the years with incremental improvements. As an example, does anyone doubt that using both hands on the gun gives much more control and accuracy? That truth doesn't mean that single-handed shooting skills aren't necessary; both are needed.

As for stance, grip, and finger placement, the fundamentals are based on physics and physiology. While physiology can change for different people (hand size & shape, body mass, etc.), the physics remain a constant.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,399 Posts
There is a giant difference between what you're describing as basically a Marine Scout Sniper (or maybe even Olympic shooting) and learning to shoot effectively enough to defend yourself or hunt a deer, Glockman. Fundamentals 99% of us think about are trigger control and grip. Stance is hardly even thought of outside places like Thunder Ranch and Gunsite (and of course internet forums). The guy was talking basics, the "meat" of the matter. Let's keep things in context here. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that you're using an extreme example for the intended message.

please share your training and experience highlights which would qualify you to contradict universal shooting methodology which has been developed over hundreds of years.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,116 Posts
I'm still of the opinion that the video was meant to say that you'll be a better shooter by doing things the right way for you personally, but we can agree to disagree. I'm not about to sit here and say I know better than those of you who have trained at these great schools, or who have put their boots in the mud and sand. Maybe I completely misunderstood the OP *shrug* Sorry if I ruffled any feathers fellas.

You didn't ruffle my feathers.

But what you will find on this forum, are a lot of great guys with sound and sage knowledge, obtained thru different means and experiences ( myself being the least of them), who will not allow incorrect or half truths to stand without objection, or exception.

Thats why I stay here.....there is always someone who knows more, or can steer me in the right direction when I do not know something.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,480 Posts
Well said!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,569 Posts
please share your training and experience highlights which would qualify you to contradict universal shooting methodology which has been developed over hundreds of years.
Or perhaps read my reply above where I stated my opinion based on what I still believe the video is referring to, the very basics? I never once said more training with differing methods couldn't make you better. Hell, I even said "adjust as necessary". But you can shoot just fine, and defend yourself just fine without a science degree or Jeff Cooper standing by your side. That was my entire point in my original reply. I don't know how it got to me dismissing every elite trainer and soldier on Gods' green earth. Carry on guys, I'll politely back away from the thread.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,957 Posts
Glockman is absolutely correct, its fundamental marksmanship 101. It doesn't matter if you are a marine scout sniper, a space shuttle door gunner or a guy trying to shoot a beer can off of a fence post. The fundamentals of marksmanship do apply ( always apply) and if you simply don't know about it or choose to dismiss it, then you do so at your own measurable loss.
Can I be a space shuttle gunner shooting beer cans off a fence post?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,084 Posts
IMO, a solid foundation (fundamentals) is always important.

Once you have that, where you go from there is up to you and should be tailored to your interests and most likely scenarios.

For instance: I took a couple of courses and then practiced 'the fundamentals' of shooting handguns. THEN, I focused on self-defense distances and scenarios.

I actually practiced the fundamentals until range staff pulled me aside and said it was time for me to move on to something else. I didnt really know 'what I didnt know.' They steered me towards the IDPA practice group where I then learned more skills that applied to actual self-defense shooting. That group offered insights into what I needed to work on for more realistic situations.

Then sites like this provided the info on what else I needed "besides" shooting, like force on force applications, gun retention, situational awareness, etc.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,084 Posts
I train horses (sometimes, my own anyway). There are many shortcuts but you usually end up finding "holes" later on. It's better to start with a solid foundation. When things get hairy, it's best to have that solid foundation to fall back on. The horse has at least something correct and ingrained to base reactions on. And horses are nothing if not 'reactionary' as prey animals.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top