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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is an interesting case I am building a defense for an accused. The question is what would YOU have done.

The man is a Louisiana resident and as such can OC legally.

He goes to TX to buy a new very expensive car. He does not have a concealed weapons permit, never needed one.

He travels to TX, some 200 miles from his home, to sign the papers on the car and drive it home. He takes his gun out of his car and sticks it in his waist band. He gives the dealership his old car keys and the paperwork (title, registratiom etc) on it. He walks over to look at his new car that is still in make ready. Then he walks with the salesman to the office to sign the papers. Someone sees the gun and calls police. They come out and talk with the man. It is explained why he has the gun. If he puts it in a case, it is concealed and illegal. It he puts it in a sack, it is illegal. If he left it in his old car, it would be gone. If he placed it in the new car, someone in the Make Ready could steal it.
TX police charge him with illegal carrying of a weapon.

So what would you do?
 

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Did he have a permit to carry from a reciprocal state?
 

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Unload the gun and place it in a case, lockable if possible.
Place the ammunition in a pocket... if the gun is magazine fed, pop the rounds out of the mag.

When safely back on the road and where legal to do so, reload and enjoy the rest of the ride.
 

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What I would have done in the same situation: coming from an OC/CHL state and heading to a CHL state where I did not have non-res CHL coverage and where OC was not lawful ... I would have carried it unloaded in a case for the duration of transitioning at the dealer from car #1 to #2.

If the details of the situation are clear, then it seems the guy clearly concealed (or openly carried) a firearm on his person without any lawful authority to do so. Legally speaking, what would I do at this point? Suck it up and take the blame for what was my knowing action against the law. What should this guy do, if desiring to debate the point? Lawyer up. He's gonna need it, it seems.
 

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First of all, this sounds too easy but I would never get myself in the postion. But, since you asked, he should have asked the dealership if they had a locked case he could put it in. I am sure they would have had something. Putting it in his waist band was the dumbest thing to do.
 

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Only thing to do is try to negotiate/beg a reduced charge. It is obvious he broke the law -- but more because of not planning ahead than from intent.

I wonder if it is OK to open carry in Texas if the property owner gives permission. If that is the case, get the dealership to say it was fine with them for him to OC while swapping out cars.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·

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If he can afford a very expensive car not available in his local area, he can afford a very expensive attorney. He needs one.

His choices were:
1. Leave the gun at home.
2. Unload the gun and place it in a locked container.
3. Conceal it better.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Unload the gun and place it in a case, lockable if possible.
Place the ammunition in a pocket... if the gun is magazine fed, pop the rounds out of the mag.

When safely back on the road and where legal to do so, reload and enjoy the rest of the ride.
That would have been logical. However, not many do this and it is also illgal to take a gun to and from in such fashion unless entering a motel, residence or other such
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
What I would have done in the same situation: coming from an OC/CHL state and heading to a CHL state where I did not have non-res CHL coverage and where OC was not lawful ... I would have carried it unloaded in a case for the duration of transitioning at the dealer from car #1 to #2.

If the details of the situation are clear, then it seems the guy clearly concealed a firearm on his person without any lawful authority to do so. Legally speaking, what would I do at this point? Suck it up and take the blame for what was my knowing action against the law. What should this guy do, if desiring to debate the point? Lawyer up. He's gonna need it, it seems.
He did lawyer up and that his lawyer hired me.
 

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He should have bought a very expensive holster and a very expensive locking box before buying his very expensive car.


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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
However, this goes to show that:

1. People need to know the laws in the states which they will be travelling. In this case, the man is not a gun person and only carries for self protection.
2. He did not know he was breaking a law. He never tried to conceal the gun because he did not want to break any laws. Granted, had he stuck it inside his shirt, nobody would have ever seen it and there would not have been anything said.
3. The police are sometimes not very understanding.
 

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When I sold very expensive cars, the make-ready guys got the new car ready while we did the paper-work and signing. They parked it next to the old car and offered to help transfer things from the old car to the new car. There should have been no problems. He did something stupid and got caught.
 

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As gun owners we are responsible to know the laws of the states we are in or traveling to. You might not agree with those laws but you do need to follow them. I am guessing he spent a lot of time online and on the phone figuring out exactly what car he was going to buy, he should have spent 5 minutes figuring out the firearm laws.
 

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Personally,if i weren't going to be there very long,i would have kept it hid,did what i had to do and leave.
 

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This is an interesting case I am building a defense for an accused. The question is what would YOU have done.

The man is a Louisiana resident and as such can OC legally.

He goes to TX to buy a new very expensive car. He does not have a concealed weapons permit, never needed one.

He travels to TX, some 200 miles from his home, to sign the papers on the car and drive it home. He takes his gun out of his car and sticks it in his waist band. He gives the dealership his old car keys and the paperwork (title, registratiom etc) on it. He walks over to look at his new car that is still in make ready. Then he walks with the salesman to the office to sign the papers. Someone sees the gun and calls police. They come out and talk with the man. It is explained why he has the gun. If he puts it in a case, it is concealed and illegal. It he puts it in a sack, it is illegal. If he left it in his old car, it would be gone. If he placed it in the new car, someone in the Make Ready could steal it.
TX police charge him with illegal carrying of a weapon.

So what would you do?
I would wait for the "oldman" to give me an update at the end of the story.

What I would have done? Researched the laws of my neighboring state before going there and complied with their laws... I have always believed it is incumbent upon us as permit holders (or in his case, a "constitutional carrier") to know the laws of our own states and any we plan on traveling to or through.

Edit to add: If I were Perry Mason, I might try to get him off on the basis of Title 10 section 2 (b)(3) and (5)(C) {the combination of both of the "segments" of the law}. But I ain't Perry, so I'd be laughed out of court...
 

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I guess I am having trouble believing the in a bag and hidden is worse than being stupid and putting it in my waiste band.

No difference than pulling into a parking lot full of people at the post office and deciding to take your gun out and place it in a lock box. How many call the police probably half the lot. If you leave it concealed and go in get your mail and come out who would know you broke the law?

What are Texas requirements for transporting a loaded pistol?

When conducting business I carry a briefcase and inside that case behind the partition is my gun. not very business like if you ask me.

Question. If this is on private property and the dealership were to give him written permission to carry in the waistband while on their property would a law be broken?
 

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I would contend the police have no case. He was on private property and the owner(s) did not have a problem. So he was legal. B.S. charge for the officers to CYA.
I'd say that this is your best defense. If you can get the owners to say they have no problem with him carrying on their property, you're golden.

Otherwise, the guy really should have known and complied with the laws. The excuses provided are just such. Waistband carry was begging for trouble. Heck, he could've field-stripped it and shoved the parts in his pockets.
 
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