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Discussion Starter #1
In general, I believe it is widely accepted that the idea for the BUG, is Back-Up-Gun in the philosophy of use for most people. And I believe it has merit to some degree, in case ones main gun goes down or becomes inoperable. Inoperable, as in during the commission of the fight as its in progress.

In other cases, it is viewed as the “ fastest reload”, which, in the case of reloading a revolver vs drawing another also has merit.
Not so much if all you need to do is insert a fresh mag in to your main carry piece.

But what if your BUG becomes the first gun introduced in the fight? Does that make your primary a BUG?
 

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Part 2

In many situations, it has been established that pocket carry allows for the fastest presentation to bring in to action, under the right circumstances. And, most people will choose a relatively small gun, chambered in a lowered powered cartridge than their primary, because most people have a definitive preference for what they can tolerate in their pockets.

Usually, this “ program compliance” calls for about 15 ounces being the upper limit for serious pocket carry. This means small and around the 380 caliber.

On any given day, my edc will look like this, with a variation of the number of mags or the chosen “ primary sidearm”.
BF428AA4-A1F9-43C9-958B-2A642E4C224B.jpeg

Which one is my real primary?

Well, I think it is how you define BUG, and the philosophy of use.

I no longer use the term BUG because of this, and I think that some thought should be put in to as why the idea of a “ BUG” is not really relevant.

Ill leave it open for discussion as to the reasons, thoughts and ideas.
 

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Part 2

In many situations, it has been established that pocket carry allows for the fastest presentation to bring in to action, under the right circumstances. And, most people will choose a relatively small gun, chambered in a lowered powered cartridge than their primary, because most people have a definitive preference for what they can tolerate in their pockets.

Usually, this “ program compliance” calls for about 15 ounces being the upper limit for serious pocket carry. This means small and around the 380 caliber.

On any given day, my edc will look like this, with a variation of the number of mags or the chosen “ primary sidearm”.
View attachment 301960

Which one is my real primary?

Well, I think it is how you define BUG, and the philosophy of use.

I no longer use the term BUG because of this, and I think that some thought should be put in to as why the idea of a “ BUG” is not really relevant.

Ill leave it open for discussion as to the reasons, thoughts and ideas.
A little off-topic, GMan, but that sure looks like poison ivy you've got your guns & mags sitting in! :blink:
 

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Discussion Starter #4
A little off-topic, GMan, but that sure looks like poison ivy you've got your guns & mags sitting in! :blink:
It is. But it doesn’t bother me, and my guns love it!
 
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I never use the term B.U.G. A gun is a gun. I prefer the military approach: primary and secondary. Most personnel have only a primary. Some have a secondary, such a senior senior NCOs and line officers. For those who have a primary and a secondary they could be considered as having a B.U.G.

The primary weapon is the one that is most lethal, therefore a rifle for an infantryman. Smaller arms are secondary. So as I see lit in day-to-day civilian use the more lethal gun carried is the always primary and the less lethal is secondary regardless of which is pressed into use.

As for me I do not carry a B.U.G. I carry extra magazines. I keep my pistol in top notch working order, clean it after ever firing. I wipe down and oil it once week even if it has not been used. I cam to tryst that method in Nam where I put an M1911 through environmental hell, kept it cleaned, oiled, and maintained. It never failed me, and had been used by many before me. I trust my PPS M2 the same way.
 

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"There were, however, real two gun men on the frontier - of a different stripe from the blazing figures on pulp-magazine covers. They carried two guns, but used only one at a time. The second gun involved a deadly trick employed against their adversaries. For example, a gambler in a Western faro hall would be fully dressed with his orthodox holster weapon: a large Colt revolver. He wore it outside where the world could see; his customers were similarly attired. But gamblers, from habits engendered in following their profession, do not believe in giving the other fellow a break. So they evolved a way to kill him quickly with a minimum of risk to their own mortality chart. The second gun was small- perhaps a derringer. It was ingeniously concealed, in the left sleeve, in the crown of the hat, possibly in the top of a boot or even under a newspaper on the table.

The hapless cowboy, probably a youngster and full of whisky, robbed of his earnings by crooked cards, would become angry. He would start, in his befuddled state, to go for his holster. But the gambler, by making a decisive movement toward his hat, his sleeve, or under the newspaper, would beat him to it by seconds. The cowboy hadn't a chance; he rarely managed even to draw his gun. A Western historian tells me that three out of four shooting deaths on the frontier were caused not by big-holster revolvers, but by the spiteful little second guns."
The American Mercury, October Edition 1937 - The Myth of the Two-Gun Man, pg 154

Don't ask me where I got it, but I have a sizable chunk of that magazine in PDF form if anyone is interested in it and I'll try to figure out how to share it. It's about 12MB...otherwise I would try to post it here. It's an interesting article that stuck with me.


---

EDIT: Great Googly-Moogly...I found the original PDF online: https://mises-media.s3.amazonaws.com/american_mercury_october_1937_2.pdf

Article starts at pg. 151...
 

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I normally always have a 442 in my weak side front pocket, and a bigger revolver on strong side either iwb or owb.

My thoughts are that they are both primaries and both are bugs, Just depends on the situation. BG is 25 yards away and running at me swinging a machete then I'm going for my right side weapon. If I'm walking through parking lot at night and BG walks up on me with bad intentions, left hand already in pocket ready to draw.
 

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I've had a similar philosophy for carry.

My EDC is an LCR in my front right pocket. When it gets cooler I'll break out the shoulder holsters again and when I do I will still carry the LCR most of the time. Because of the LCR being discretely carried in my pocket and having the ability to have my hand on it ready to draw with no one being the wiser, it will probably get drawn first in a defensive encounter.
 

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At times I carry a bug ... Primary most of the time a Glock 27 with a +1 mag extention and a Glock 23 mag as a spare ... My Bug is a Taurus TCP 380 or a Charter Arms UL 38spl...
 

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I think many of us think of a second gun as another opportunity vs a "backup" to a primary gun. The 380 or 642 in my left pocket may be easier to draw than the belt gun or it may be that the left side is easier to "sneak" a draw away from prying eyes. I always have a small concealed second gun when open carrying as well even though its mostly backcountry type of open carry. Someone might get the jump on me and want my open carry gun. I also have one on me when out shooting in the sticks just in case of the similar scenario of someone seeing an easy robbery and catching me with an empty range gun.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Don't leave out the new york reload ; )
H/D
That was addressed in the opening OP.

But do you think it still has merit, if the primary is out of ammo, and it is an auto; providing you are carrying a spare magazine?
 
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I think many of us think of a second gun as another opportunity vs a "backup" to a primary gun. The 380 or 642 in my left pocket may be easier to draw than the belt gun or it may be that the left side is easier to "sneak" a draw away from prying eyes. I always have a small concealed second gun when open carrying as well even though its mostly backcountry type of open carry. Someone might get the jump on me and want my open carry gun. I also have one on me when out shooting in the sticks just in case of the similar scenario of someone seeing an easy robbery and catching me with an empty range gun.
I do the same thing at my ranges...even if the gun I am practicing with is on my belt, I’ve got another concealed piece. My ranges are rural, and unless I’m going with friends, I’m often the only one there...it’s often my form of meditation.

Also, if I’m shooting a rifle, and going downrange to check targets...a rifle goes with me. I’ve found my AUG works great in the role...
 

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That was addressed in the opening OP.

But do you think it still has merit, if the primary is out of ammo, and it is an auto; providing you are carrying a spare magazine?
Was reference as to carrying 2 snubs, But a spare mage with a auto I would chose the mag ; )
H/D
 

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I never use the term B.U.G. A gun is a gun. I prefer the military approach: primary and secondary. Most personnel have only a primary. Some have a secondary, such a senior senior NCOs and line officers. For those who have a primary and a secondary they could be considered as having a B.U.G.

The primary weapon is the one that is most lethal, therefore a rifle for an infantryman. Smaller arms are secondary. So as I see lit in day-to-day civilian use the more lethal gun carried is the always primary and the less lethal is secondary regardless of which is pressed into use.

As for me I do not carry a B.U.G. I carry extra magazines. I keep my pistol in top notch working order, clean it after ever firing. I wipe down and oil it once week even if it has not been used. I cam to tryst that method in Nam where I put an M1911 through environmental hell, kept it cleaned, oiled, and maintained. It never failed me, and had been used by many before me. I trust my PPS M2 the same way.
The BUG concept comes from LE, not the military. The military still believes in carrying unloaded guns.
 

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I rarely carry a gun, at home and weekends, let alone two, Board of Regents rules.

I'd rather have a gun. I'm a firm believer in a good getaway shot or two or three or . . . A gun is better outside of touching distance than than any other weapon.

Heck, I'll be the first to admit that a .380 bouncing off a brow could be worse than a cheap kubaton.

KO

Heck, I'd settle for a standing eight count because I'm in a real hurry to gather me and mine up for a getaway.
 

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I think it is a great idea for some carry strategies. I think having a gun in a pocket you can put your hand on without brandishing and get out really quickly if you need it has merit. Also, a smaller gun might be more useful in a contact situation where you are H2H with an assailant. The little guns can be maneuvered better in tight spaces. We were practicing gun disarms in a Krav Maga class I took. They were using plastic Beretta 92 replicas. I thought that long muzzle was a great lever to grab and made the exercise easier. For one class I brought in a plastic LCR I had and it was harder to take away. It had less to grab onto. I imagine a micro .380 would be even harder to grab.

And for shooting, I don't think the faster reload is the only reason to need a second gun. Admittedly, it's rare, but I've had two guns lock up on me at a range to the point that TRB would not work. One was a 1911 and the other a Kahr. If the next round to feed somehow gets nose down at just the wrong spot in the cycle, the slide can be jammed all the way back with no room left to rack. If I had been in a real situation, those guns would have been paperweights. Also, in a struggle you could lose control of your first gun. It could be taken away or sent flying. Having a second could be handy.

Another thought I had is something Brownie mentioned. If you are in a situation where you think something might happen, you could palm a really small gun. He uses an NAA mini-revolver, which is perfect for that, but I just tried palming my Bodyguard .380 and looking the mirror. I couldn't completely cover the gun, but if I got my hand just right and was walking, it could easily be mistaken for a wallet or a cell phone if one wasn't looking too closely.
 
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