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Discussion Starter #1
CCW Safe just put out one of their articles to members that discussed a case where a guy claimed SD after a shooting, but he also told police that he didn't know the gun was loaded. He claimed he pointed the gun in SD, but thought the gun was empty. Now, all of us are thinking this guy was just an idiot, which he was, but that's not the point.

CCW Safe brought it up make a point. SD and an ND are legally incompatible. Either you intentionally fired to prevent an immediate threat of death or grave bodily harm, where you can claim SD, or the gun accidentally went off and if someone was hit, you are criminally liable, regardless of what threat you were under.

The issue this underscores is trigger discipline. "Never put your finger on the trigger unless you intend to shoot." If you are in an SD situation and you violate that rule and the gun goes off when you didn't intend it to, you can't say that happened and claim you were justified in SD. So you give one story or the other, but not both. It is also good reminder to say only what you have to until you talk to a lawyer.
 

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Another example of the solidity of the advice of not spilling your guts to the cops without your lawyer being present.
 

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Yeah, that probably won’t buff out for that guy. You own every bullet that leaves the barrel. Great thread topic!
 

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Excellent advice...any HINT of unintended shooting and your homeowners' insurance is up for grabs even though the person you shot was criminally wrong. If you ever shoot at a person, let it be ON PURPOSE.
 

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Under FL law, I don't think it would make much difference.

"A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person who uses or threatens to use deadly force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground if the person using or threatening to use the deadly force is not engaged in a criminal activity and is in a place where he or she has a right to be."

Pointing a gun--empty or loaded--would be threatening to use deadly force as the BG would not know it the gun were empty or not. All he would see was the gun in your hand threatening him. At that point, whether it fired or not, the justification to use--or threaten to use--should have been met, and it would be up to the DA--whether you fired intentionally or not, being as threatened or use of deadly force was committed, that justification did not exist.

Under FL law.
 
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TX has the same justification in the criminal law for showing/threatening to use force if necessary, if the situation justifies the use of force. I have never heard of a person charged for accidentally shooting someone in a situation where the person who needed shooting was the recipient...if he was justified in using deadly force, and used pointing the gun to stop the threat, the fact that he snapped the gun not knowing if it were loaded or not should not make a difference. Criminally, a legal shoot should be a legal shoot. What I was referring to was the civil aspect that opens up the homeowner's insurance to the bad guy because the shooter said something stupid. I'd like to read that case the OP mentioned...that state's law may be based heavily on intent, rather than circumstances being met in that particular situation. Whole new can of worms to study into.
 

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I've never understood the rationale of having an unloaded gun on your person or in your house for SD/HD. IF you keep every gun loaded (with a round in the chamber), there's no guess work, no confusion, and no time lost when SHTF.
 

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If he didn't know the gun was loaded or thought that it wasn't loaded, why did he pull the trigger?
For the sound effects?
 
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If you say stupid stuff to the police, it will come back to haunt you - same if you do stupid stuff with a gun. All guns are loaded until proven otherwise.
 
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Discussion Starter #13
FWIW, the shooter got 17 years. The victim was an unarmed teenage girl knocking on his door needing help after she had wrecked her car. She was drunk and high, but not a threat. He did not call police prior to confronting her. He opened the door with the gun pointed at her head and it went off.

So yes, there is more to the story, but his attempt to say it was SD and he didn't know it was loaded come up big time at the trial and damaged his credibility.
 

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If he the weapon went "click" when he pulled the trigger instead of going "bang" the BG would've known it was a bluff and the ball was in his court.
 

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Learned something years ago from someone that to me, is one of the basic universal truths. If you never lie, you don't have to remember what you have told people.
 
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FWIW, the shooter got 17 years. The victim was an unarmed teenage girl knocking on his door needing help after she had wrecked her car. She was drunk and high, but not a threat. He did not call police prior to confronting her. He opened the door with the gun pointed at her head and it went off.

So yes, there is more to the story, but his attempt to say it was SD and he didn't know it was loaded come up big time at the trial and damaged his credibility.
Those facts change the ferinstance a bit. Thanks for putting some more truth in the telling.
 

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SD?

I don't see a drunk female 17 year old car accident victim as much of a threat. I certainly am not in fear for my life.

I think this guy got what he deserved. If you are going to be stupid then you have to be prepared to pay the price.
 

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SD?

I don't see a drunk female 17 year old car accident victim as much of a threat. I certainly am not in fear for my life.

I think this guy got what he deserved. If you are going to be stupid then you have to be prepared to pay the price.
Cowardice is alive and well.
 

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His attorney should take into account that his statement was made while he was still in shock from the incident. I'll bet it is really hard to remember to keep your mouth shut when you are still in shock from having to defend yourself with deadly force. A lot of people might try to think of a lot of circumstance that could have prevented them having to use deadly force. Even after just minutes before they felt in danger for their life. Excuses that might be more like fantasies.
If I was his attorney I would be asking if it would have made any difference to his case if it had been a 18 year old MALE that was on drugs and alcohol and who was attempting to break into the house. In my opinion the guy is being railroaded by the kind of people who blow every incident out of proportions when it involves a person of color. Especially a female.
Like young black women don't break into homes and murder people? Or is it just the people who let them in that get murdered?
Once again it is the victim who has done nothing but try to defend himself, who gets the short end of the stick , against the person who have put themselves in danger by doing everything that is against the law and what should be against normal behavior.
I hate to say it but it is very disappointing to me to see CCW Safe take the attitude they have towards this case and I would hope that they do a better job of defending me if I am ever in the position where I need their services.
 

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Maybe the story should read how CCW Safe failed to defend a person who defended their home with deadly force.
I can't put myself into that scared persons mind but I know I would have never opened that door. For all of the talk about whether he knew that gun was loaded I don't see any question about why he would open a door if he thought somebody wanted to harm him. No matter what else happened I think that was his biggest mistake.
 
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