[puffer]

One of the MAJOR concerns that most of us have as CCers, is what happens if we have to use it for our self protection, especially if we have to out on the street. Far too often the shooter is the one that ends up in Jail.:gah:

But here in Seattle ( yes SEATTLE of all places ) A Woman dropped an unarmed person who was threatening Her @ a Metro Bus stop back in April. A even though, IMHO, She & Her companions "exasperated"the situation by their own harassment of the "victim" :nono: NO CHARGES were filed against Her by our PA.:congrats:

Local News | No charges to be filed against woman who shot man at bus stop | Seattle Times Newspaper

Puffer

 

[REVMAN]

Good deal

 

[nutz4utwo]

This is GREAT news. I recall this case from last year and have kept my eyes open for an update. The media has been suspiciously silent...

here is the original thread:

http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbull...ttle-wa-woman-cpl-shoots-man-altercation.html

I also want to point out, here in Washington State, if a jury finds you not guilty by means of self defense, the state has to pay for your legal bills. I am sure that played a role here- there is not much extra money floating around for the prosecutors to fool around with a likely to loose case...

The system was designed to regulate itself.

 

[skeet732]

I wonder what the outcome would have been if the woman had not been armed? "Man arrested in brutal attack on mother of four" Children traumatized by the sight of their mommy being stomped on" " DB gets off on a technicality" I like ******* gets shot better!!!!!

 

[Rob P.]

I like this story except for one thing. She was held for 2 days before being released without charges.

WHY was she held for 2 days? The police would have investigated and interviewed witnesses at the scene. The witnesses would have told the same story that they did. Based on that the woman was acting in self defense regardless of what the dirtbag would have said.

A 2-4 hour detention while the investigation was being conducted would have been sufficient IMO. ESPECIALLY as she was with her young children at the time.

 

[Sticks]

Maybe did something smart like, not talk to the police without council?

I'd be more than happy to sit with duct tape over my mouth for 2 days in interview rooms if it betters my chances of not trying my luck with the legal system.

 

[nutz4utwo]

It is obvious (to me at least) that they wanted to charge her, but didn't think it was worth financial and political risk. It has taken them 6 months to decide.

The initial police assessment was to arrest/charge her (hence the 2 days in jail), but they had a thin case and released her. After 6 months of looking, they couldn't find something to convict her with...

just my .02 cents

 

[JT1JT1]

Can I play devil's advocate?

Had the woman NOT been armed, would she still have pushed the guy off her, engaged in a verbal confrontation and then made obscene gestures once she was off the bus and presumably safe?

If her being armed was what emboldened her to continue the engagement with the BG, then that may not be a clear-cut win for CCW crowd.

It may sound like Monday Morning QBing, but I hope that if I pull my carry weapon, it's absolutely clear that I've done absolutely nothing to exacerbate the situation and everything to defuse it. But I'm human so perhaps that won't be the case...

 

[murfnamedmsu]

I am hesitant to call this a victory. While the guy was initially acting like a jackass and probably scared everyone, you can't shoot someone because you are scared. She (along with her family) kept the altercation going by swearing and gesturing at the guy. It might be media/police bias, but it sounds like the situation would have ended when they exited the bus if they had just left quietly. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to be in that situation, but most states would say she was responsible for keeping that altercation going and thus had not acted out of self defense.

I agree w JT1JT1, some people act more boldly than they should because they are armed, whereas most tiptoe more quietly because they know the risks of getting in a fistfight with a gun on the hip, and they don't want to end up having to shoot someone. If she had been quiet and the situation continued forward I would support her 100%, but I can't say that she did her job to try to diffuse things properly before pulling out a gun. This is the kind of thing the sheeple claimed would happen nonstop if the concealed carry bills passed. I'm very thankful it does not happen frequently because it makes us look bad.

 

[Hubadub]

I`m ecstatic that the lady defended herself.When I took my cc class,the instructor quite candidly told us that a woman would be given far more leeway by the D.A. than a man would.I`d like more leeway myself but I`m happy for the woman.:danceban:

 

[murfnamedmsu]

I`m ecstatic that the lady defended herself.When I took my cc class,the instructor quite candidly told us that a woman would be given far more leeway by the D.A. than a man would.I`d like more leeway myself but I`m happy for the woman.:danceban:

That's generally true and it makes sense in many ways, but on the other hand what man in his right mind is going to engage someone in a fistfight while he is carrying, knowing he could have his gun taken from him? Even if that's not the case, at what point is he supposedly justified in moving from fists to firearms? I'm very glad women get a fair chance to defend themselves, but in some cases it has seemed like there was an unrealistic expectation for a man to magically escape the situation without rightfully using his firearm.

 

[BriNik]

I am hesitant to call this a victory. While the guy was initially acting like a jackass and probably scared everyone, you can't shoot someone because you are scared. She (along with her family) kept the altercation going by swearing and gesturing at the guy. It might be media/police bias, but it sounds like the situation would have ended when they exited the bus if they had just left quietly. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to be in that situation, but most states would say she was responsible for keeping that altercation going and thus had not acted out of self defense.

I agree w JT1JT1, some people act more boldly than they should because they are armed, whereas most tiptoe more quietly because they know the risks of getting in a fistfight with a gun on the hip, and they don't want to end up having to shoot someone. If she had been quiet and the situation continued forward I would support her 100%, but I can't say that she did her job to try to diffuse things properly before pulling out a gun. This is the kind of thing the sheeple claimed would happen nonstop if the concealed carry bills passed. I'm very thankful it does not happen frequently because it makes us look bad.

Well said. The news story said he stayed on the bus until she and her family continued to provoke him, had they exercised even the slightest restraint it seems that it would have ended with no confrontation at all. I think that is the lesson I would have taught my kids, not its ok to act any way you want because mommy has a gun.

 

[21bubba]

Sounds like a good shoot to me. I only wish there were more people that refuse to back down to the dirtbags in this world.

To those here that think she was wrong, I say grow a spine. She was with her childern and her"partner", she was threatened, sounds like what you are supposed to do. You know,defend yourself and your family

 

[nutz4utwo]

I agree with you two above to a point. She did not respond with the kind of avoidance and deescalation that I expect of myself. Especially when armed.

However, making obscene gestures (while not a good idea) is not illegal. Neither is swearing. (I suppose one could commit a public disturbance).

Ultimately, this man exited the bus and acted in a way that caused this woman to fear for her and her children's safety. She responded to that threat. The prosecutor agree her action was not criminal.

Circumstances can change in a second...

 

[RETSUPT99]

I agree with you two above to a point. She did not respond with the kind of avoidance and deescalation that I expect of myself. Especially when armed.

However, making obscene gestures (while not a good idea) is not illegal. Neither is swearing. (I suppose one could commit a public disturbance).

Ultimately, this man exited the bus and acted in a way that caused this woman to fear for her and her children's safety. She responded to that threat. The prosecutor agree her action was not criminal.

Circumstances can change in a second...

This was not smart, nor illegal, but contributes to the facts of the case surrounding the victims actions contributing to the shooting...instigating the incident. These kinds of actions can cause problems in almost any state.
She was certainly within her right of SD, but didn't make it easy, and it doesn't sound like she let a lawyer do her talking.
Glad she will be OK and that the dirtbag got what he really deserved.

 

[BriNik]

My spine is nice and straight and strong, as it grew it turned me into a man, a man that knows right from wrong, a man that does not go around antagonizing confrontation because I have a gun. When you choose to carry you know full well that every argument you get into will involve at least one gun. I will give you that the guy acted like an ass from the start, I might even go as far as to say that she may have been justified in her decision to fire in the finial seconds. BUT if she had used even an ounce of restraint and what I call reasonable judgment it would have ended with him and the bus driving off.
But what do I know, I guess next time that guy cuts me off driving down the road I should scream, swear and flip him off, maybe cut him off and slam on my breaks. That way when he follows me and walks up to my truck at a red light I can blow him away and it can be justified as just taking dirt bad off the street. I just hope he doesn’t try to take my seat at the movie theater.

 

[bladenbullet]

i am shocked that anyone would be surprised that she was held while the police determined whether she should be charged and i would not have been surprised if she was charged....she continued to provoke the man even after the incident was over...enough for him to make the foolish decision to get off a bus he had decided to stay on after she left it...her and her family continued on and in a sense baited the man into a violent confrontation...

not the way anyone would expect a concealed weapon license holder to behave by any means...the victory almost becomes a precident in that it allowed a gun carrying person to escalate what may have been an innocent mishap into a defensive shooting...

he fell on her in the bus...she was mad and pushed him off...if i were to guess it wasnt a helpful push...it turned into a verbal argument with some nasty language...she and others with her continued the argument even after leaving the bus...why?...because she was armed and didnt have anything to worry about?...

i guess next time somebody bumps her on the street she might try it again...maybe another victory?...or will this one have a gun and shoot her when she gets aggressive toward them?...

advice...say it in your head before you say it out loud....

 

[Gibber]

Let me get this straight. Woman has cuss fight with man, spurs it on, gets off bus and still, without being presented with deadly force or some means to do her grave bodily harm, she shoots him? What the heck? And, gets off?

Sorry folks, this flat-out, does not cut it in my book. Pepper spray yes, gun, no.
At least here in TN, to use deadly force [gun] you must first be presented with deadly force or truly believe that you are going to suffer great bodily harm [not a bruise but broken bones, concussion, etc.].
I simply can not believe what I have read in some of these postings.

 

[dylistn]

Best defence is avoiding confrontation. By ******* this guy off she endagered her children. What would she have done if this guy pulled at 9mm or 45 and emptied it her direction? She or her children could have died for confronting a nutcase. Great that it worked out ok. But better to avoid danger, especialy when children are present.

 

[nutz4utwo]

for a detailed explanation see the prosecutor's press release:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2009/12/01/2010398750.pdf

I agree with their decision.