Defensive Carry banner

1 - 20 of 114 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
166 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
My wife and baby, (well he's 22 and 6'3" 280, he's still my baby) were pulling out of a car dealer parking lot onto to a two way side street. To my left I observed a red Ford Explorer with 5 occupants, 1 a child turn right out of a drive way, floor it, fish tail recklessly towards us, causing me to emergency stop pulling out of the dealership driveway. As he came towards us, I raised my arms in a *** shoulder shrug. He slammed on the brakes, stopped in front of me just as I was half way through my right turn. I was in a 1999 Ford Super Duty Crew Cab 8' box 4X4 which is a long vehicle. He exited his vehicle and approached my drivers window in an aggressive manner. He was screaming, waving his hands (which were empty) charging towards me. I rolled down my window as he came up to my vehicle. He was screaming obscenities, asking me what I was going to do about it, and screaming, saying go ahead call the cops. I do not recall if I stated anything to him as he ranted, but he finally ran back to his vehicle, turned right on to a four lane major street fish tailing and departing at a high rate of speed.
1) I did not get a license plate number because my eyes were on him all the time
2)I know his hands were empty because I watch hands very carefully, especially the palms.
3)I was armed at the time with a Glock 19 OWB with Hornady Critical defense rounds, and 4 full spare mags.
4) I had a J frame .357 magnum in my left front pant pocket as a bug.
5)I did not draw because he did not have a weapon in his hands, nor did he ever ball them up in an aggressive manner.
What I would like to know is what I should have done different, right and wrong. I am an Iowa Correctional Officer, which is not a LEO or sworn position.
I should have told the wife to get the plate number when he first stopped before he reached our vehicle. I should not have rolled down my window. Should I have drawn and presented his nose to the end of my G19 and then called 911 to report the incident? I would appreciate CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. Also reviews of what I did right. I am viewing this as an after action review so should it happen again I may react in a better manner than this time. The laws of the State of Iowa apply to this situation
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,703 Posts
Gosh, I think you did pretty well. I agree on not rolling down the window, getting the plate and calling 911. :wink:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
350 Posts
Hard to know. Could you have safely driven away, either by going around or backing up? Pulling your gun would have been absolutely the wrong thing to do. Always good to have a non-lethal alternative like pepper spray on hand, though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
473 Posts
Good restraint from brandishing or cussing back saying you have guns on you. IMO, he did the right thing by walking away before something went terribly wrong. Some people just dont realize who they're messing with until its too late.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
199 Posts
Over all you did really well. You already know your biggest loss was not recording the license #.

Drawing, and pointing your sidearm at him, would have been a poor choice. As you said, he had empty hands open in a "non threatening" manner, even if the rest of his body language was threatening. Keeping you hand on your weapon, or even drawing and keeping the gun out of his immediate sight but ready for a quick response would be the way I would go.

I would have left the window rolled up. By rolling down the window, you risk escalating the issue.

Yes, getting his license plate # would have been the best. You could have reported it to the police and it would matter IF you are willing to go to court to testify against him.

After the incident, write down every detail you can remember for future reference in the event of a court hearing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
369 Posts
Great job!

Only thing I would like to think I would have done different (im not as calm as you were :image035:) is to kill him with kindness.

There is another parent in the carpool line I visit with from time to time and he is with Houston PD. A similar thing happened to him the other day, in uniform no less, and he just killed the guy with Merry Christmas and such. He had his son do the same, but the idiot keep screaming nasty words at him. I should mention that the LEO's vehicle has dark tinted windows :yup:. He was eventually put in a position where he could not get away and had to confront the idiot. He basically told him to apologize to his son or go to jail. Then he wished him a Merry Christmas once again.:blink:

Point is its better to go the calm route when able. I think you did a fantastic job, other than the window, and handled it very well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
72 Posts
By focusing on his hands you probably narrowed your vision field to a small field of view. Always try to do a total scan to see if anyone else is coming up or getting into the conflict.

Depending on how close he was. Lowering your window while not drawing your weapon if he was close put you within striking range. Having the window up helps defuse the situation.

Also as soon as he stopped you should have called 911. When he stopped he was illelgally detaining you and put you and your family in danger.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Strange thing feeling threatened when you're inside a vehicle. At the same time you're protected to a degree by the vehicle itself and vulnerable to fire if unable to move the vehicle, as you can't move your position much inside the vehicle.

I agree with Thumper on his thoughts for improvement. I would have had the wife on the phone the whole time with the cops, just in case. Odds are if he was flying off the handle with you, he'd do it again with someone else and the outcome could be worse. Sometimes a few nights in jail give perspective. :hand10:

Couldn't tell if you were blocked in or not- if not, then I would have just driven away and left him yelling like an idiot at my fumes. :smile:

To be honest, if he had me blocked in and I thought I could pull my gun out of the holster and keep it out of his view, I probably would have. I'm often carrying strong side IWB, which makes it a little harder to draw in my car. This would have given me the ability to aim and fire in the blink of an eye if he did in fact go for a weapon. Other than drawing a weapon I wouldn't really care what displays of stupidity he did. He can break his fist on my car window for all I care- I can smile and nod with the best of them. :yup:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
13,684 Posts
Next time, keep the windows rolled up and dial 911 as you are leaving the scene.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
473 Posts
I was taught in my CHP class that in a situation like this, it is ok to brandish the weapon at your side as a means of letting the aggressor know you have it, but as soon as you pull it up and point it then you have engaged in a situation that you may have to answer for at a later time. I still think you did well by not losing control and grabbing at guns.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
50,596 Posts
From what you have shared, I'd say you did just fine. It's hard to decide exactly what to do when approached by 'potential dirtbags'...this one turned out OK. :hand10:
I probably would have done the same.:yup::yup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,536 Posts
The shrug was not needed - sure, he was an idiot, but I doubt such folks often drop to their knees and beg forgiveness when they see such a gesture. Not to say it wasn't understandable - just that it wasn't needed. And without it, he would likely have kept on going.

+1 on getting dear wife on the phone and having her get a license plate.

But these are details: you got to go home that evening. Bravo!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,397 Posts
Sounds like you made the best of the incident. As others have stated don't roll down the windows. Also watching his hands is good but remember he doesn't have to make a fist to strike you. Open hand strikes hurt also.
Semper Fi
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
I guess I blew it the other day. I was pulling into our Home depot and this guy come flying up to a stop sign on a side street scids to a stop almost hitting my expensive F250 powerstroke truck. I did the shoulder and arm thing at him. Well he then flips me off, so I flip him off back. He then comes out of his truck. I wasnt carryng at the time so that wasnt even an option. I didnt want him hitting my truck or breaking the window, so I jumped out. Well I'm 6'2" and 225 and can handle myself and figured I better be outside my truck where I can at least be ready. Well when he saw I was twice his size he did a fast turn around and hauled a$$. Should I have just played cool and let him do his thing. It was a knee jerk reaction to shrug my shoulders at him. Its hard for me to just sit there and do nothing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,071 Posts
Everyone walked away, so you did fine. As others have said, I would not roll down my window. That's just inviting their display of stupid into your environment. Defensive driving has taught me that the roads are full of idiots, so I have come to expect it. It does no good to get mad, yell at them, or even make gestures. You can't fix stupid. Idiots like that are like flatulence...they make a lot of noise and stink, but they don't last long. Either get out of the stink zone or hold your breath.

Get tag # and call 911 to report incident.

Another option if no escape is turn your radio up loud so he knows you can't hear him or start laying down on the horn. That could possibly just tick him off more. If you can't vacate, ignore (while being aware and prepared) and the moron will likely go away if he gets no reaction out of you.

Another legal option in Virginia is to place your holstered weapon on the dash of the vehicle when someone jumps out of their car. I'm not advocating this as it also has its pitfalls (no need to flame me), but I'm just saying it is a legal option in this state. I used to open carry on the dash of my truck before I got my CC permit. I rarely OC anymore (just when I am forced to with VA laws about CC in places that serve alcohol...the "Virginia Tuck" rule as they say here).

I'm glad it turned out ok...you did very well by keeping your cool.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,314 Posts
If we were playing by jungle rules he should have had the feces kicked out of him for trying to play caveman. People like that are only cured by lead or long incarcerations, one or the other they will get if they continue to pursue their wayward lifestyles. Too bad an innocent often gets sacrificed in their wake. Since you rolled down your window, you should have blasted him with a super soaker loaded with liquefied cow manure and then took off before he could follow. But that's just my imagination at work!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
534 Posts
I have to ask everybody that is saying to call 911, why? I don't see anything in the OP that was an emergency, the guy had a temper tantrum and then left.

If the cops waste time on this type of call, then more time is removed from them to spend on a real problem. I mean are they going to track down the guy and give him a temper tantrum warning?

My advice would be to drive around the moron (easily done with a 4x4) and continue with your day. Eventually he will mouth off to the wrong person and get a life lesson.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,252 Posts
First off, it sounds like you did pretty good, with just a few minor improvements to be had, IMHO.

Next time, keep the window rolled up and the doors locked. If you have to crack the window, less than an inch, in order to communicate that would be fine as far as I'm concerned. I'm not conversant in Iowa law, but I do know that if he started trying to get through your window to get at you, you have more proof for your side in a courtroom.

I have to ask everybody that is saying to call 911, why? I don't see anything in the OP that was an emergency, the guy had a temper tantrum and then left.

If the cops waste time on this type of call, then more time is removed from them to spend on a real problem. I mean are they going to track down the guy and give him a temper tantrum warning?

My advice would be to drive around the moron (easily done with a 4x4) and continue with your day. Eventually he will mouth off to the wrong person and get a life lesson.
Calling 911 and reporting a Road Rager, while it may not have been an emergency right then, could very easily escalated into one. Also, let the on-duty constabulary mess this guy's day up. He wants to act like someone with recto-cranial inversion, let him be treated as such by those that have the capability to deal with him. That would be the on-duty constabulary. Who knows, he may have had wants and warrants.

Once he had gotten out of his car, yes, you could've very easily driven away, and what I'd most likely do if possible. If not, and he did approach my vehicle in the manner you described, I'd have a gun in my hand, but concealed. It takes but a split second for situations to change, and by the time you notice the change you may be too far behind the power curve to respond to it.

If you were in the act of driving away and he followed, that escalates the situation into a totally new ballgame. Thank you for the After Action Report (AAR), and Merry Christmas.

Biker

PS: I'm in corrections myself, but we are considered LEO's. Stay safe and go out the way you came in, alive.
 
1 - 20 of 114 Posts
Top