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Super Moderator
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This has been around for awhile, but I ran across it while reviewing crime statistics in the US compared to the UK and other "Gun Control" countries. It is really adjunct to the recent posting on the UK Home Office Directive to slap criminals on the wrist. :rant: :rant: :rant:

By John R. Lott Jr., Eli Lehrer
Posted: Friday, July 9, 2004
American Enterprise Iinstitute Online (Washington)
Publication Date: July 1, 2004

Despite promises to the contrary by gun-control advocates, many nations have found that increasing restrictions on guns--and even banning them outright--actually increases the number of violent crimes committed.

The gun-control movement is in trouble internationally. From Britain to Australia to Canada, promises of lower crime rates from gun control have turned into the reality of historic increases in crime.

While the normal knee-jerk solution is to press for even more controls, once guns are banned the explanation that the laws failed simply because they did not go far enough becomes almost humorous.

All these experiments were adopted under what gun-control advocates would argue were ideal conditions. All three countries adopted laws that applied to the entire country. Australia and Britain are surrounded by water, and thus do not have the easy smuggling problem that Canada claims to exist with regard to the United States.

Take the United Kingdom: with new data showing violent crime soaring, Britain's home secretary announced legislation this month that would impose an outright ban on many toy guns.

Britain has already banned just about every type of weapon that a criminal might want to use. Handguns were made illegal in 1997, and nearly every other firearm (even BB guns) is now subject to a complex regulatory regime.

Twice As Dangerous

The laws did not do what was claimed. The government just reported that gun crime in England and Wales nearly doubled in the four years from 1998-99 to 2002-03. The serious violent crime rate soared by 64 percent, and overall violent crime by 118 percent.

The violent crime rate in England and Wales now stands at twice the rate of that in the United States.

Understandably, the government wants to "do something," but it is hard to believe that the new proposals will succeed where past efforts have failed.

With the exception of the United States, other English-speaking countries have followed Britain's lead in limiting gun ownership. Like the British, they have nothing to show for it.

Australia saw its violent crime rates soar after its 1996 Port Arthur gun-control measures banned most firearms. Violent crime rates averaged 32 percent higher in the six years after the law was passed (from 1997 to 2002) than they did the year before the law went into effect. Armed robbery rates increased 74 percent. Australia's violent crime rate is also now double America's.

Canada has not gone anywhere near as far as Australia and England, but even that country's limited restrictions have caused problems. Despite a gun registration system that has cost five hundred times more than promised (the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation claims the overrun is one thousand times greater), the overall crime rate is more than half again higher than in the United States and has risen as the American crime rate has fallen.

Meanwhile, violent crime in the United States has fallen much faster than in Canada, and murders in Canada have gone up slightly, while falling in the United States.

The Canadian government recently admitted it could not identify a single violent crime that had been solved through registration. Public confidence in the government's ability to fight crime has also eroded, with one recent survey showing only 17 percent of voters support the registration program.

Guns do not tell the whole story: gangs, police and prisons also play a major role. Drug gangs cannot simply call up the police when another gang encroaches on their turf, so they end up establishing their own armies and committing a great many murders. (Gang fights account for about 60 percent of all murders in urban areas in the United States.)

The United States has long had a sophisticated and violent gang subculture that the nation's decentralized system of 16,500 police agencies had a difficult time handling. England's more centralized forty-five-agency police did a better job fighting gangs, but, over time, the gangs have become more violent, sophisticated, and apt at acquiring guns. This has led to rising gun crime.

Police and prisons probably also account for some of the difference in crime, though it does not explain why the difference has grown so suddenly. The United States also has more police per capita than the United Kingdom, particularly in its big cities: New York and London are roughly the same size, but New York has about 40,000 police officers to London's 29,000.

Failed Schemes

The United States also locks up many more criminals: nearly 500 out of 1 million Americans are serving time behind bars as compared to about 150 per 1 million in the other English-speaking countries. America, quite simply, keeps more bad guys behind bars where they cannot commit crimes.

Repealing gun control laws might not solve the crime problems in the United Kingdom and Australia overnight, but the exploding crime rates (including gun crime) in countries that have banned all guns shows that we can add gun control to the list of government planning efforts that do not live up to their billing. Its failures have become too overwhelming to ignore.

John R. Lott Jr. is a resident scholar at AEI, and Eli Lehrer is the associate editor of The American Enterprise.

Super Moderator
13,944 Posts
Very nice! Unfortunately the documention and demonstration of the failure of gun control doesn't seem to impact the antis. They don't want to see the truth. They are blinded by their idealism and agendas it would seem.

Premium Member
25,481 Posts
Correct Ron - it matters not how much you point anti's at what I regard as incontravertible facts - they still continue to want more restrictions. It is indeed focussed as ever on control.

I am hopeful that eventually countries like Aus' and UK in particular - sooner rather than later - see a real sea change and realize that the only way for a nation to stand much chance of at least limiting the proliferation of crime, is to enable the common man, the law abiding citizen, to have both the ability and means to defend himself.

It is a downward spiral and I do wonder just how far it can go. We joke about what other bans may be in the pipeline - but in truth this is already reaching the absurd. Anyone who read Disko's description of all the defence options he cannot have or even entertain - or use - can see just how totally fettered the average person is.

It has become an advanced case of, not so much turn the other cheek (multiple times) but total BOHICA - pretty much ''OK folks, stand there and die''. :frown:

Super Moderator
13,944 Posts

I fear your are right on! We actually need to re-take some ground. And, I do see some hope. The FL castle law seems to be catching on, and it looks like we could have a potential win about guns in parking lots.

Sometimes I wonder if gun owners' apathy or slothfulness isn't a large part of the problem. The less we do, the better off the anti's are.

Premium Member
25,481 Posts
Apathy is certainly a killer Ron but - in the countries we discussed while that has been a factor, sadly too the voice of the vocal minority has been ignored - maybe that is the ''subject'' deal and lack of rights - just mere privelages - and precious few of those too.

That is why I say that things may have to reach such a low, sufficient to make it a big wake up call - then from at last a majority.

Glock M29 or 1911鈥攂oth in 10mm
8,610 Posts
Results of Gun Control on a Global Scale:

Some might argue that the communist numbers are even higher, or that the Turkish genocide continued through WW1 until 1922, but the facts below are not in any dispute.

During the 20th century, over 100 million civilians were killed by their own governments, more than in all 20th century wars combined. In each case, extermination followed gun confiscation.

1911: Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians in Turkey, unable to defend themselves, were exterminated.

1929: The Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, 40-60 million 鈥渃lass enemies,鈥 unable to defend themselves, were exterminated.

1935: China established gun control. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million Chinese 鈥渃lass enemies,鈥 unable to defend themselves, were exterminated.

1938: Germany established gun control. From 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews, Catholics, Gypsies and others, unable to defend themselves, were exterminated in Nazi controlled Europe.

1956: Cambodia established gun control. From 1975 to 1977, one million 鈥渃lass enemies,鈥 unable to defend themselves, were exterminated.

1966-1976: China still had gun control. Millions of more 鈥渃lass enemies,鈥 still unable to defend themselves, were exterminated in Mao's "Cultural Revolution.鈥

1990s: Rwanda established gun control. In 100 days in 1994, over 800,000 Tutsis, unable to defend themselves, were exterminated by machete-wielding Hutus backed by armed government militias.

Registration ALWAYS equals confiscation. Maybe not right away but that is the sole reason to register firearms, no matter what is said. It has happened exactly that way in both New York and California. Confiscation can be a direct cause of personal disaster. Ask the folks in New Orleans.

Premium Member
25,623 Posts
Makes you wonder..... They ban weapons from the honest folks, take the death penalty off the table, and then they are surprised when their crime rates skyrocket. Go figure! :blink:

6,741 Posts
It dumbfounds me how the "anti's" can still find it in their heads to argue the point faced with the mounds of incontrovertible facts.

The only thing they have to say is "that would never happen here". Yeah right, whatever you say. It always has and there is nothing to say it won't again. Look at history: slaves, Indian reservations, and camps for those of Japanese descent only 60 years ago. Don't tell me "it won't happen here".
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