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Discussion Starter #1
My friend was running some errands today. At one point he was sitting in his truck in a shopping plaza answering some texts messages and voicemails on his tele. He is not a ccer but as he was sitting there in his truck he notices 3 teenagers kind of shuffling thru the lot around the vehicles. They have hoods up on their jackets. My friend notices they are moving ever closer to his truck and as they walk by one of the teenagers yanks open the passenger door and goes for my friends day planner book sitting on the seat. Apparently the teen never saw my friend sitting there!! My friend says "hey dude what's up" the teen froze then all 3 bolted out of the lot getting nothing.
My question is this: what would a legal response be if there was an armed citizen in that truck?? Tia
 

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probably: "hey dude what's up" pay no attention to this S&W model 60.....:35:

My question is why was his door unlocked?
 

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" .... as they walk by one of the teenagers yanks open the passenger door and goes for my friends day planner book sitting on the seat. "

Under Florida law that well could have ended with a justifiable homicide.
 

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Despite various States' laws defining vehicles as an extension of your home, there was no real threat.
And no real threat warrants no response of deadly force, especially when the loss is replaceable. Otherwise you risk losing your LTC, probably going to jail, and looking at considerable defense expenses. Your friends' best course of action would have been to call 911 and report them as possible snatch & grab suspects with a full description of the individuals. In Texas, that scenario hinges on the possibility of replacing the stolen item, by any means, including insurance coverage, which would make any response of deadly force unjustified. End result: Shooter faces serious charges.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I wonder why he didn't lock his doors either I guess he was on the tele and watching them at the same time. Would there be any reason to have your gun at low ready??
 

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I'm not going to shoot someone over a petty theft, especially a dumb kid.

If you want answers I would suggest referring to your state laws rather than getting it from an inet forum.
 

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First this is the NC law and only applies to NC. Second, with 3 against one odds I don't know since they had no visible weapon and made no threats.

(b) The lawful occupant of a home, motor vehicle, or workplace is presumed to have held
a reasonable fear of imminent death or serious bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily harm to another if
both of the following apply:
(1) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of
unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered
, a home, motor vehicle, or workplace, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person's will from the home, motor vehicle, or workplace.
(2) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.

(d) A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter a person's home, motor vehicle, or workplace is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.
(e) A person who uses force as permitted by this section is justified in using such force and is immune from civil or criminal liability for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer or bail bondsman who was lawfully acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer or bail bondsman identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer or bail bondsman in the lawful performance of his or her official duties.

The CCL instructor said that means if you wake up at 3AM, you do not have to see a weapon and you may open fire. This applies to home, work, or vehicle.
That said, if somebody simply trespasses onto your front yard, you should not open fire without more threat. Tell them they are trespassing and they need to leave now. Also, you may NOT shoot to simply stop them from robbing you. If they are stealing your car, that does NOT justify using deadly force. But if they yank your car door open at a stop light, you should defend yourself. You can see there are grey areas.

As I understand it. if one had opened fire when they yanked the door open, that could be considered a justifiable threat. If they reached for the iPad and started to leave, it is not justifiable to open fire.
 

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The question I see is does opening an unlocked door qualify as forcible entry? I'm no lawyer but just on a common sense level I'd have a hard time calling that 'forcible'.

Had the door been locked and he 'forced' it open or had the kid kept coming into the truck once the occupant objected - yeah absolutely it's on - but otherwise doesn't seem to me to rise to use of force.
 

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Day planner?!?! I thought those were extinct by way of the smart phone.

Sorry, I'm still stuck there. Undoubtedly others will chime in and say he should've or shouldn't have shot someone. For me, regardless of state laws, my morality says it's not right to shoot a teen for petty theft, especially when I'm the one who left the door unlocked. I lived in Las Vegas for a few years and it was extremely common to see a drug addled adult look and take things out of pick up beds and try door handles... AT A STOP LIGHT. Easier to not keep doors unlocked and valuables in your truck bed than shoot someone.
 

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Sic my bulldog on him. If the teen doesn't ME sitting there, he'll NEVER even notice an 85 lb. Staffordshire Bully. :image035:
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I'm not going to shoot someone over a petty theft, especially a dumb kid.

If you want answers I would suggest referring to your state laws rather than getting it from an inet forum.
What if he opened the door and stuck a gun in your face and said get out I'm taking your truck??
 

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The question I see is does opening an unlocked door qualify as forcible entry? I'm no lawyer but just on a common sense level I'd have a hard time calling that 'forcible'.

Had the door been locked and he 'forced' it open or had the kid kept coming into the truck once the occupant objected - yeah absolutely it's on - but otherwise doesn't seem to me to rise to use of force.
Under FL law, opening a closed (yet unlocked) door is forced entry.
 

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What if he opened the door and stuck a gun in your face and said get out I'm taking your truck??
What if he hit himself in the shin as he opened the door and dropped the gun?

But that's not the topic at hand or question in your OP, now is it?

Once again, I refer you both to the laws that govern your actions and rights in your particular state.
 

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There are lots of opportunities in life to be immature, irresponsible, aggressive and impolite.

Carrying a defensive handgun gives you a reason to be mature, responsible, calm and polite. Don't look for reasons to use your deadly force, look for opportunities not to have to go to that extreme. Better to drive away, lock your doors.

Is it fun to watch TV and imagine you are a crime-fighter and daredevil? Sure, but it's supposed to be fantasy not something you want to happen.

Your friend, OP, should use this as a learning opportunity as to what to do next time so they are not drawn into a bad situation.
 

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Here; anyone illegally entering (uninvited or without the owners permission ) an occupied vehicle , can be considered a threat..... but this one wouldn't fit because he didn't attempt to enter the vehicle. It was an obvious attempt to steal something. So, if someone shot them,.... they would likely be in jail and then prison for the rest of their life.

But, ..... they would see a firearm in my hand, and me asking them what they thought they were doing.

The fail was to me, that he wasn't keeping better track of them when they were near his truck...... or was, but surprised they opened the an unlocked door.

If the teenager grabbed it and took off, I'm betting driving after him in the truck .... he would soon decide to drop it. Teenager, does not especially mean a "kid" .... some teenagers can very dangerous and armed, and some are not that small either.
 
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First this is the NC law and only applies to NC. Second, with 3 against one odds I don't know since they had no visible weapon and made no threats.

(b) The lawful occupant of a home, motor vehicle, or workplace is presumed to have held
a reasonable fear of imminent death or serious bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily harm to another if
both of the following apply:
(1) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of
unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered
, a home, motor vehicle, or workplace, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person's will from the home, motor vehicle, or workplace.
(2) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.

(d) A person who unlawfully and by force enters or attempts to enter a person's home, motor vehicle, or workplace is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.
(e) A person who uses force as permitted by this section is justified in using such force and is immune from civil or criminal liability for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer or bail bondsman who was lawfully acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer or bail bondsman identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer or bail bondsman in the lawful performance of his or her official duties.

The CCL instructor said that means if you wake up at 3AM, you do not have to see a weapon and you may open fire. This applies to home, work, or vehicle.
That said, if somebody simply trespasses onto your front yard, you should not open fire without more threat. Tell them they are trespassing and they need to leave now. Also, you may NOT shoot to simply stop them from robbing you. If they are stealing your car, that does NOT justify using deadly force. But if they yank your car door open at a stop light, you should defend yourself. You can see there are grey areas.

As I understand it. if one had opened fire when they yanked the door open, that could be considered a justifiable threat. If they reached for the iPad and started to leave, it is not justifiable to open fire.
You may want to check this out. In Virginia, attempted robbery may be met with deadly force. And there is a difference between robbery, theft, and burglary during the daytime. Somethings it's the little minutiae that can get you in trouble or get you injured or killed.
 

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As I understand it. if one had opened fire when they yanked the door open, that could be considered a justifiable threat.
Perhaps, but I don't think shooting automatically (as some might argue for) is the right approach, and here's why:

A few years ago I was out shopping at night. I returned to my truck, unlocked the door, and got in the driver's seat. As I was about to put the key in the ignition, I noticed a bundle of fluorescent light bulb tubes in the back seat. I found this odd, as I hadn't had such a bundle when I went in the store. After about two seconds of looking around, I realized that it wasn't my truck. Presumably whoever's truck it was had left it unlocked when he went in the store. I exited with haste, and found my truck two or three spaces further down the row. The two were the same model, within a couple of model years of each other, of the same color and with the same upholstery.

So, the point: if there had been a person sitting in that vehicle when I hopped in, I don't think I would have deserved to have gotten shot for it. Mistakes and misunderstandings happen. "Know your target" includes knowing that it's a threat. If you don't know it's a threat, don't shoot.

Some will argue this point - "but if I wait until I know it's a threat, it might be too late!" Yeah, it might. Tough. Blowing away an innocent person, or even a teenaged petty thief, because you don't know that he's not a threat is not an acceptable outcome. At least, for a decent person.
 
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