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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

My friend and I are wanting to conduct CC classes in the state of Kansas. The more I think about the prospect of doing this the more questions I come up with.

My first concern is liability. That is, is an instructor liable for his students should one be injured, wounded or God forbid, killed on the qualification range? I was told in the instructor class that there is no "attached" liability pertaining to a state certified instructor to his students. Guns are inherently dangerous and any person with common sense knows this before they set foot on a firing range. But I'm still leery.

The state AG Office has developed a package for the CC instructor that contains all of the forms as well as the curriculum that must be presented during the training. One of the forms is a "Hold Harmless" Waiver each student must sign that declares that they waive the right to hold the instructor liable for any mishap duirng the training.

We are also required to have our qualification range inspected and certified by the state prior to starting classes. And the location for our range by the way is on some rural acreage that I own. I am retired Army and my partner has been in law enforcement for almost twenty years now. We are both very experienced and are comfortable in a training scenario but that darn liability issue keeps nipping at my brain.

I am soliciting any advice that any of you who are CC instructors would care to give. Perhaps in your experience you can pass along some useful information that would be helpful to us as we begin this venture? Particularly on the business side. Should I get a bond, LLC or other business credential? Should I buy private liability insurance as well? I understand that responses to this thread is not legal advice and it will not be received as such. I'm simply asking to benefit from those of you who have been through this process.

Thank you.
 

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Sounds like you have a great idea and I wish you all the success in the world. You need to find a good attorney to answer your questions. I have my thoughts, but if something were to go wrong, nothing I say will do you any good. The few hundred bucks you spend with a lawyer will be well worth it in the long run. good luck
 

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First off you have a great idea, looking into the pitfalls of being an instructor. As for liability, in a word yes. You are responsible for any and every thing that occurs on the range, good or bad. You can be sued for nearly anything now a days. Also if any person you have ever trained who is involved in a shooting incident you can be sued. It is called vicarious liability. My suggestion is to contact an attorney in your area who specializes in firearms related law and get their opinion. BTW I was a Virginia approved Security Firearms Instructor form 1982 - 1995 and ahve never been in any legal hassle because of those I have trained. That doesn't mean there were none that gave me concern because there were a few that gave me a good amount of concern. Today I am a Police Instructor for my small agency and only instruct our officers on approved courses of fire. Again do see an attorney in your area for specific advice on liability issues.
 

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Here in Nevada, an instructor must hold NRA certificates to get a CC Instructors permit. One thing I would recommend is Insurance, here is the NRA's: NRA Endorsed Insurance Program - Instructors Professional Liability

If you can afford it go with the $1/2 million rider that includes Professional Liability! Keeping in mind it is a tax right off for the business.
 

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One thing to keep in mind is to NOT try to start out with large classes. Teaching new and improperly trained shooters can be very similar to herding cats. You can only provide the needed supervision to a limited number of people so start small until you gain that comfort level and strategy to increase the number of students you can adequately and safely observe. Don't fall into the "cattle car" training where you jam the most students into each class.
 

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Hello,

My friend and I are wanting to conduct CC classes in the state of Kansas. The more I think about the prospect of doing this the more questions I come up with.

My first concern is liability. That is, is an instructor liable for his students should one be injured, wounded or God forbid, killed on the qualification range? I was told in the instructor class that there is no "attached" liability pertaining to a state certified instructor to his students. Guns are inherently dangerous and any person with common sense knows this before they set foot on a firing range. But I'm still leery.

The state AG Office has developed a package for the CC instructor that contains all of the forms as well as the curriculum that must be presented during the training. One of the forms is a "Hold Harmless" Waiver each student must sign that declares that they waive the right to hold the instructor liable for any mishap duirng the training.

We are also required to have our qualification range inspected and certified by the state prior to starting classes. And the location for our range by the way is on some rural acreage that I own. I am retired Army and my partner has been in law enforcement for almost twenty years now. We are both very experienced and are comfortable in a training scenario but that darn liability issue keeps nipping at my brain.

I am soliciting any advice that any of you who are CC instructors would care to give. Perhaps in your experience you can pass along some useful information that would be helpful to us as we begin this venture? Particularly on the business side. Should I get a bond, LLC or other business credential? Should I buy private liability insurance as well? I understand that responses to this thread is not legal advice and it will not be received as such. I'm simply asking to benefit from those of you who have been through this process.

Thank you.
Look into finding an NRA training counselor. Then obtain your NRA credentials. Its not that expensive and worth while provided your counselor is a good one. There are benefits to having your certs with the NRA. Onacoma is right about the NRA liability, its good and inexpensive. I run mine as a DBA, its easy and inexpensive, once it grows then look into an LLC. It is also beneficial to becoming an RSO. Good information on how to run a line in a professional and safe manor...

A suggestion about class size, NCbullseye is right about class size, keep it small for the first few, you and your partner should be able to handle a class of 10-20 easy. Just run two on the line at a time. Giving each student the right amount of time needed to get them on their way...Good Luck..
 

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I wish you the very best , but one of the statements said a few hundred bucks for a lawyer . Please don't believe that, it will be a few thousand dollars 2,000.00 at min. But it is well worth it to be informed . Also you must line yourself up with a great insurance broker that understands your need .
 

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I'll go ahead and suggest the NRA backed instructor insurance too. I would certainly have some form of insurance. I carry two plans, one with the NRA, and one more general liability policy in case someone slips and falls or something.

As mentioned NRA instructor credentials could be worthwhile too. They open you up for a lot of discounts, which can add up to more than your yearly fees in savings depending on what you buy.

I also think setting up a LLC or some other sort of legal entity is a good idea, since it further protects you, they aren't that hard or expensive to set up.
 

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If what you teach isn't backed up by statute or case law, be very careful with the "coulda, woulda, shouldas." Instructors should instruct facts, not myths and opinions. Best of luck in your endeavors.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Great advice so far. Keep it coming guys, my partner did get his NRA credentials but I haven't yet, but I will. My partner's employer sent him to training whereby he got his state and NRA credential and he is officially qualified to instruct law enforcement in the state of Kansas in handgun and shotgun.
 

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Something that i took note of when my wife and I took our CCDW class here in KY. The instructor explained the course as to how it would be conducted. specifically every aspect of the course from signing in to final range shooting. Before any further discussion the instructor explained liability issues. We were then given a waiver to sign that made him exempt from any and all liability. Once everyone signed the waiver the class began. Frankly I was very delighted to sign and move on.

In retrospect and having set in on other classes, our instructor was nothing less than amazing both in the classroom and on the range.
 

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On the business end you should strongly consider an LLC, depending on your state laws it could significantly limit your personal liability beyond capital invested in the venture. Also, check out the small business association (SBA) in your area. They can provide a wealth of cheap/free advice regarding business structure, local license requirements, business plan creation, and potential sources of capital.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Something that i took note of when my wife and I took our CCDW class here in KY. The instructor explained the course as to how it would be conducted. specifically every aspect of the course from signing in to final range shooting. Before any further discussion the instructor explained liability issues. We were then given a waiver to sign that made him exempt from any and all liability. Once everyone signed the waiver the class began. Frankly I was very delighted to sign and move on.

In retrospect and having set in on other classes, our instructor was nothing less than amazing both in the classroom and on the range.
Do you recall what he said about liability issues?
 
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