I have been doing a lot of reading about after the shot when you had to use your weapon to protect yourself. Some of the info said to talk very little to the Officer on scene. The info said to point out witness, and then shut your mouth and call a lawyer. I was just wondering would it be a good idea to find a lawyer who you could call before any of this could happen. What are your plans after the shot?
After the Shot
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Do it exactly as Mas said to...............
I'm not a lawyer not have I stayed in a cheap motel lately, so "grain of salt"!
"Ideally" you'd have your attorney on retainer long before any incident. It's not an ideal world though. So retaining an attorney as soon as possible after something happens should be your number one goal.
A few years ago, the advice (solid then) was to say NOTHING except the word "lawyer". Now CCW is more and more becoming the norm. 49 states have some form or another, and the average patrol officer is more likely to be aware of it
So the advice has "morphed" into that of saying "I was forced to defend myself / fire, I would like to consult my lawyer before making a statement."
There are a couple schools of thought here. Being that CCW is more prevalent, and if that specific situation is very cut and dry, you may not ever wear the silver bracelets. You'll be questioned for sure but I have heard the stories of clear home defense cases where the homeowner never sees the back of a police car.
In situations "out on the street" and where the circumstances may be unclear to the officers, expect to be arrested. (Arrest doesn't mean you'll for certain be charged with a crime either).
So the sooner you get your own lawyer the better, hopefully you can find a good one to put on retainer before anything happens. I'm been looking for a good one myself for many years.
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"Ideally" you'd have your attorney on retainer long before any incident. It's not an ideal world though. So retaining an attorney as soon as possible after something happens should be your number one goal.
A few years ago, the advice (solid then) was to say NOTHING except the word "lawyer". Now CCW is more and more becoming the norm. 49 states have some form or another, and the average patrol officer is more likely to be aware of it
So the advice has "morphed" into that of saying "I was forced to defend myself / fire, I would like to consult my lawyer before making a statement."
There are a couple schools of thought here. Being that CCW is more prevalent, and if that specific situation is very cut and dry, you may not ever wear the silver bracelets. You'll be questioned for sure but I have heard the stories of clear home defense cases where the homeowner never sees the back of a police car.
In situations "out on the street" and where the circumstances may be unclear to the officers, expect to be arrested. (Arrest doesn't mean you'll for certain be charged with a crime either).
So the sooner you get your own lawyer the better, hopefully you can find a good one to put on retainer before anything happens. I'm been looking for a good one myself for many years.
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I have no experience here either...but from what was suggested in my CCW class, is to contact a PRO 2A lawyer and get him/her on retainer ASAP. It was also suggested, that after the shot, you tell the officer(s) that you will only speak to YOUR lawyer, not A lawyer. 2:30am after the incident is not the time to begin looking for a lawyer to defend you.
That said, I have yet to secure my pro 2A lawyer. :smile:
I am taking it seriously though and am looking for one while my CCW paperwork is being done.
That said, I have yet to secure my pro 2A lawyer. :smile:
I am taking it seriously though and am looking for one while my CCW paperwork is being done.
I just recently took my CCW class and as part of it they had a guy come in and talk to us about Texas Law Shield. They are in other states as well and also other similar firms like this one. This firm only handles firearms related clients. I never heard of them before the class and have since researched such defense groups. There seems to be several out there and I guess it's like car insurance, you have it and hope you never need to use it. Anyway I just thought I'd throw that out there since this sounds like what you are looking for. :hand10:
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I have an attorney who did my will and helped me with a property dispute a while back. He was pretty good (and I work with a lot of attorney so I have some idea what talent looks like). He told me that if I ever needed him, to call. That has been my plan, although now that you bring it up, I suppose I should take an opportunity to discuss this particular scenario with him BEFORE anything ever happens just so I understand how he would handle it.
I hope and pray I never need him for anything like this!
I hope and pray I never need him for anything like this!
Suggestion: find a competent attorney who is both well-versed in the field of defending the self-defense criminal case as well as successful in defending them. A "property" guy might be all well and good for property, but if you've been arrested for manslaughter or worse then you need a bit more "oomph" in the defending-the-SD-case area of the pool. Same as how you'd prefer to have a bit more horsepower than any old public defender who gets tossed the case. If that happens to be your "property" attorney, fantastic; consider it a great two-for-one discount of sorts. Otherwise ...
Im sure there are those of us out here in no mans land on fixed incomes that honestly cant afford to retain a lawyer on the chance we shoot someone in SD. There are a lot of horror stories out there but from what I can tell they either stemmed from a questionable grounds to shoot or a shooter that after stating the facts wouldnt shut up and got caught up in embellishment. Thereby shooting his own credibility as well. By all means if one is arrested one needs a lawyer.
However I know personally that I cant afford to just keep one on call. If its a good shoot you may well go home to supper after some questions also.
However I know personally that I cant afford to just keep one on call. If its a good shoot you may well go home to supper after some questions also.
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Rather lengthy but worth it....
Dont Talk to Police - YouTube
Dont Talk to Police - YouTube
Fortunately incidents are few and far between and a dedicated section would get very few posts.
Property Disputes do not typically involve the firing of a deadly weapon. My advice would be to definitely talk with him to make sure he is up to the task, or ask him for a possible referral.
My best friend is a criminal defense attorney and he says say nothing just be polite and let the officer know where the gun is right away and ask if you can call your attorney. Remember LEOs use council on their cases as well and he said they understand that you will want to talk with an attorney. You do have the right to say NOTHING.
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I am really glad this topic came up. My CCW class, like most other's here, did go over this subject and gave similar advice about tell the officer where the gun is and that you will speak after you have consulted a lawyer. They also suggested having a 2A supportive lawyer on retainer, but as in the case of an earlier gentlemen on a fixed income, at least have the number of a lawyer in on you even if you cannot afford to have that lawyer on retainer. Obviously, with a retainer, you know for sure the lawyer will handle your case, but having a number or two to call is better than having to figure it out while in custody.
More so, I think certain mental aspects of this topic are easily glossed over. If, heaven forbid, you have to use deadly force to defend yourself in the public square, I think it is beneficial to mentally think through not only what you will do, but what you can/should expect in the immediate aftermath. This mainly applies to actions that occur in public, not in one's personal residence. First is making 2 phones calls immediately after "BANG" and the threat is stopped and you are safe. The first is 911 to get law enforcement and medical assistance on the way. The second is to the above mentioned lawyer.
Now, patrol officers are going to arrive quickly and they are going to be on high alert. They are likely going to put you in cuffs and take you into custody, even though you know it was self defense and strongly feel you are the good guy and did nothing wrong. Remember, the officers do not know this, all they know is that there has been a shooting. It is not anything personal against you, just hopefully a high level of professionalism. The officers' job is not to determine on the spot whether the shoot was justified, their immediate job is to secure the scene, preserve and document the evidence and scene for their reports. It is also to get any witness testimony. Later at a district station, they will get your side of the story after you have consulted your attorney. They then can make a recommendation on whether they think the shoot was good. As long as your story matches up with what they find at the scene and any witness testimony, they will pass a no charge recommenation to the DA's office and you will likely be free to go. You and your lawyer may have to meet with the DA as well. Once again, it's not personal. Like the police, the DA have the best understanding of what happened that day as reconstructed by the police evidence and reports. Once the DA clears your shoot, you are in the clear from the criminal justice perspective.
Unfortunately, the lawyer costs are going be beaucoup dollars, but not competently navigating the criminal justice system will cost you much, much more. Also unfortunate, is the fact the even though the criminal system says you were in the right, the civil system uses a different standard and you may face suits from the family of the BG which will cost more money in lawyer fees and potentially expose you to financial risk because our peers are not as intellectually disciplined as we would prefer. The DA's decision should help in this situation, but juries of our peers do make baffling verdicts (McDonalds Coffee anybody?).
Biggest thing is to mentally rehearse and prepare for the unthinkable, so that you can be polite to the responding officers, understand their job and role, and above all, protect yourself from criminal prosecution and civil penalties.
More so, I think certain mental aspects of this topic are easily glossed over. If, heaven forbid, you have to use deadly force to defend yourself in the public square, I think it is beneficial to mentally think through not only what you will do, but what you can/should expect in the immediate aftermath. This mainly applies to actions that occur in public, not in one's personal residence. First is making 2 phones calls immediately after "BANG" and the threat is stopped and you are safe. The first is 911 to get law enforcement and medical assistance on the way. The second is to the above mentioned lawyer.
Now, patrol officers are going to arrive quickly and they are going to be on high alert. They are likely going to put you in cuffs and take you into custody, even though you know it was self defense and strongly feel you are the good guy and did nothing wrong. Remember, the officers do not know this, all they know is that there has been a shooting. It is not anything personal against you, just hopefully a high level of professionalism. The officers' job is not to determine on the spot whether the shoot was justified, their immediate job is to secure the scene, preserve and document the evidence and scene for their reports. It is also to get any witness testimony. Later at a district station, they will get your side of the story after you have consulted your attorney. They then can make a recommendation on whether they think the shoot was good. As long as your story matches up with what they find at the scene and any witness testimony, they will pass a no charge recommenation to the DA's office and you will likely be free to go. You and your lawyer may have to meet with the DA as well. Once again, it's not personal. Like the police, the DA have the best understanding of what happened that day as reconstructed by the police evidence and reports. Once the DA clears your shoot, you are in the clear from the criminal justice perspective.
Unfortunately, the lawyer costs are going be beaucoup dollars, but not competently navigating the criminal justice system will cost you much, much more. Also unfortunate, is the fact the even though the criminal system says you were in the right, the civil system uses a different standard and you may face suits from the family of the BG which will cost more money in lawyer fees and potentially expose you to financial risk because our peers are not as intellectually disciplined as we would prefer. The DA's decision should help in this situation, but juries of our peers do make baffling verdicts (McDonalds Coffee anybody?).
Biggest thing is to mentally rehearse and prepare for the unthinkable, so that you can be polite to the responding officers, understand their job and role, and above all, protect yourself from criminal prosecution and civil penalties.
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A self defense shooting is a local matter. Has absoloutly nothing to do with the second amendment. My advice would be to get a good criminal lawyer. It may be good idea to buy an hour of a local criminal lawyers time for a few words of advice. Also keep his business card in your wallet in case the worse happens.
Texas Law shield has some good information.
This is right off their website, looks like a good list of steps.
• Make sure the threat has been controlled and remain at the scene. If not, find a safe place and remain there.
• Call 911, request police and ambulance – do not say anything other than your name, location, send police and ambulance, and that you have been a victim of a crime. The 911 call is recorded – Say Nothing Else!
• Call your attorneys! Call the emergency hotline number on the back of your Firearms Program Member ID card.
• Wait for authorities.
• Return your weapon to safe keeping – do not keep it in your hands – you may be mistaken for a bad guy.
• Do not disturb the scene or remove physical evidence.
• Do not refuse medical treatment.
• When police arrive comply with all commands in a neutral non-threatening manner, keeping your hands clear. Until they sort it out, the police do not know the good guys from the bad guys!
• Inform the police you have been a victim of a crime and provide your statistical data, such as name, address, telephone, etc. – nothing else! State to the police: “I wish to invoke my right to remain silent and I want my attorney.”
• Make no statement to anyone, wait to talk to your attorney. If you just shot someone, you are in no state to answer detailed questions. Silence is likely your best option.
• Do not speak to the media.
• If asked to accompany law enforcement, comply, but make no statements!
• When your lawyer arrives, follow their advice explicitly.
• Do not make any jokes or cute remarks. These may be used against you!
• Even if you feel you have done nothing wrong, make no statements! Talk to your lawyer first!
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Ok, here is my take on this. Do you have $5000.000 laying around?
I am a consultant to about 35 attorneys on a routine basis in crime & accident scene reconstruction. Their retainer is going to start somewhere around $5,000 and then if something happens, they might suggest you retain another attorney and drop you. The District Attorney I work for daily was at one time a criminal defense attorney. His fee for representing a shooter has run as high as $50,000 and I was a consultant on that case. My fee was $2700 and that was in addition to the lawyers fee. The last case I went to court on in a homicide case took a week of my time in court and a retainer does not include the experts he will hire.
My suggestion is to know who you will call in the event an incident takes place.
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I'm guess'n the fees in CA would be about 10X higher!
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