Age - and retreatability

2002 Views 21 Replies 12 Participants Last post by SatCong, Aug 27, 2005

P95Carry

Discussion Starter · Aug 25, 2005

Depending where you reside and state laws this is of varying relevence, from legal standpoints.

That aside, the thread I posted re effects of engaging after running, or not - made me think further because of constraints on some folks - due to age and/or infirmity.

I am right now at least - a moderately fit 60 - better than some my age - not as good as a few others. Shall we say, I hold the middle ground for my ability to retreat - something I must do where possible of course, and avoidance even of that I hope, helped by awareness. Should I tho be really ''caught out'' - realistically I can only retreat a short distance - mainly I expect to be seeking cover. More on this momentarily.

On one end of the spectrum tho we have the disabled - wheelchair, crutches, prosthetic leg etc - and in these cases should something go down I'd expect (and hope) that legal analysis after the event would show that engagement had to be priority over retreat. A no brainer perhaps.

Other end of the spectrum tho is the young and fit person - prime of life, in good shape and possibly able to run like the wind - they in many cases could have to face explaining why they did not retreat - or chose not to. As ever - circumstances will always alter events - however much we theorize.

To return to my own considerations of this - what I might do - I find that while I am relatively fit - ''things'' often do not work as expected (no sneaky comments now!!!). If I go into a sprint very fast - there is every chance that old ankle injury will result in pain and whole thing giving way - that happens every week or so anyways. Even my chronic old back can spring surprises and so these days I am cautious with physical exertion in case it kicks into spasm.

So - from choice and even discretion - I doubt I would choose to do too much retreating - might be a different story tho in an actual situation! So, more I think about it - the seeking of cover is about my limit. Blanket statement I know but that's how I see it.

So - lemme see - to take this ramble further - let's have an individual assessment from folks - how they see their own ''athleticism quotient'' and so what they might achieve thru retreat and how much - or not.

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LPguy

· #2 · Aug 25, 2005

I agree that age is certainly a factor for retreat.

I spent 9 years catching shoplifters and when I "retired" at 40 years old this past January. Although I train regularly in the martial arts ( my flexability isn't what it used to be either) which keeps me in prime shape for a 40 yead old, I was noticing that the younger 20 something shoplifters and store detectives alike were starting to give me a run for my money.

I began to fall into the mind set "Out smart em, don't try to out run em" ahhhhh the benifits of experience and ....wisdom.

Sounds like you have it well thought out if you even need to draw on somebody.

Good for you bro!

Tangle

· #3 · Aug 25, 2005

I'm approaching 60 rapidly and continuous, strenuous exertion for 30 - 60 seconds is about all I would realistically expect to be capable of. My strength and flexiblity is not what it once was. I can run, but not far or fast.

Since I run even slower backwards, the only other option is turning my back on an attacker and hoping I have enough head start to escape. But, the very thought of turning my back on an attacker is absurd for me - it just won't happen.

So my only alternative is to stay and fight with whatever the a situation demands. First we have to win the fight.

Somebody's signature line says, "A young man may kick your ___, but an old man will kill you."

P95Carry

Discussion Starter · #4 · Aug 26, 2005

"A young man may kick your ___, but an old man will kill you."

Then there's this one too Tangle! -

Don't fight an old man - he's got nothing to lose, and has learned all the dirty tricks you still don't know!

QKShooter

· #5 · Aug 26, 2005

I would think that if retreat were just not possible for any reason such as age or impairment or a pre~existing physical injury or medical condition then that sure would be an extremely valid legal reason to use deadly force sooner rather than "give up your ghost"...before your natural time.
We should not have to sacrifice a Right to Life, Liberty, & the Pursuit Of Happiness at any age. Just my opinion.

LPguy

· #6 · Aug 26, 2005

I love the quotes guys.........here is another parrable in favor of age to remember.

A young bull and an old bull are grazing on a hill when the young bull notices a heard of cows. He turns to the old bull and says "look! Cows! Lets run down and F*** one" The old bull turns to the young one and says......"Lets walk down and F*** em all!"

FortyFive

· #7 · Aug 26, 2005

Hi P95Carry-many folks at an early age find themselves really handicapped because of auto accidents or cancer as an example. They are weak, cannot defend themselves very well at all. At the other end the older folks vary from being in reasonable shape to very poor. I believe in CA there is a law about beating on a person over 70 and adds to the prison term. I cannot run nor struggle with an attacker, my reserve gas tank is empty so to speak. If I am near my firearm I have a chance but out in the open it gets ugly for me. Age does affect your abilty to cope in a bad situation but its usually loss of strength or muscle power that affects you in my opinion.
Chris I believe you should go down to the Harley-Davidson dealer and check out the new HD Dyna line of bikes. It will perk you up and with much respect for your talent as a biker they may offer an accesory to enable you to get on your scooter made easy. Fall is coming back your way and you need this new bike to maintain your standing in the neighborhood. :grin:

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P95Carry

Discussion Starter · #8 · Aug 26, 2005

may offer an accessory to enable you to get on your scooter made easy.

Hahaha - Richard, no sweat - thus far I can still ''get my leg over'' LOL :biggrin:

Rob72

· #9 · Aug 26, 2005

When retreat is not an option: "The bastards got us surrounded. They can't get away, now!" -Chesty Puller. :wink:

Bottom line- regardless of age, fight dirty. Use fire, sprinklers, gas cans, LP bottles, pocket full of ball-bearings, whatever is around to "even" odds that are less than favorable.

rfurtkamp

· #10 · Aug 26, 2005

P95Carry said:
On one end of the spectrum tho we have the disabled - wheelchair, crutches, prosthetic leg etc - and in these cases should something go down I'd expect (and hope) that legal analysis after the event would show that engagement had to be priority over retreat. A no brainer perhaps.

I've lost probably 80% of the proper use of my right leg on the average day - I can still walk and function, but that's about it. Some days it's a hobble, some days I can run - but I don't count on the latter.

And I can't run more than a city block or two before the ankle will crumble, possibly permanently.

Thankfully, I have no legal obligation to retreat in this state regardless.

BlueLion

· #11 · Aug 26, 2005

Your ability to fight and win is ability on your physical lets not only spend time at the range lets spend time walking and getting in shape fellas.

rfurtkamp

· #12 · Aug 26, 2005

BlueLion said:
Your ability to fight and win is ability on your physical lets not only spend time at the range lets spend time walking and getting in shape fellas.

I'd absolutely love to be able to walk like I used to. I'd go for twenty mile hikes without thinking about it.

By what my doctors have told me, I shouldn't be walking at all - so I'm grateful if nothing else for what I do have.

For some folks it's not spending time walking and getting in shape.

Unless walking will repair a dozen stress fractures and a destroyed ankle and a smashed arch, I think I'll hobble and shoot and do what I can.

gregarat

· #13 · Aug 26, 2005

I do part time unarmed security at my apartment, so I can pay less for rent. Its also nice cause my building manager doesnt mind if I jog and use the weight room at 5:00a.m., it gives me more free time when off duty. 24hrs in a day isnt enough!!!
Personaly, I think she just likes checking me out :wink: :biggrin:

P95Carry

Discussion Starter · #14 · Aug 26, 2005

Blue - yep as Robert mentions - some things make working out and keeping fit tricky.

I do what I can - and if you saw my muscle definition you'd think I was still working out daily. However, I do suffer from a lot of stamina loss so - apart from a ''quick burst'' I am quickly depleted, apart from possible ankle collapse risk.

Sure wish I was back in my 30's when I probably peaked out - could still do good lifts and wouldn't have thought twice about a physical confrontation - one that is I couldn't avoid.

KC135

· #15 · Aug 27, 2005

If rettreat/avoidance is a safe and viable option, I will use it. If not I won't.

Do not believe age our ability is the factor, just the circumstance.

LPguy

· #16 · Aug 27, 2005

I've lost probably 80% of the proper use of my right leg on the average day - I can still walk and function, but that's about it. Some days it's a hobble, some days I can run - but I don't count on the latter.

Rfurtkamp,

Master Mark Shuey Sr. has a great self defense system called "Cane Masters". I have no idea if you even need to use one or not, but his system will keep a "legal to carry even on an airplane" weapon in your hand at all times.

Mike

BlueLion

· #17 · Aug 27, 2005

Hey guys I am a Disabled Veteran who suffers from knee problems and the same. When I went to my local VA for a Check up the doc told me to move it and start walking. Well I sat around for a while and did not do it until one day I saw an older gentleman walking with his pipe and I could not believe it he is in his seventies and he walks rain or shine. My home is near a retirement center. This inspired me to move it. Well needless to say I am back near my military weight and I feel great. Guys it does not take much, park far away when you go to wally world to pick up ammo, walk to the end of your street and ease into it. Furthermore make sure we all are current with our check ups. Well guys I don't know your individual issues I only hope and pray you stay as fit and strong as possible. PS the doc at the VA also said use it or lose it. :smile:

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armoredman

· #18 · Aug 27, 2005

I am gaining a spare tire from being a supervisor, that wasn't there as an officer! Gotta work on that.
AZ - no duty to retreat, "stand your ground" state.

FortyFive

· #19 · Aug 27, 2005

BlueLion, nice encourgement to all of us, we need to walk for sure. I am one lazy dude but doctor tells me the same thing, walk. Take it easy guys and also consider light weights maybe 2lbs for arm exercise. See you around the block!!! :smile:

rfurtkamp

· #20 · Aug 27, 2005

LPguy said:
Rfurtkamp,
Master Mark Shuey Sr. has a great self defense system called "Cane Masters". I have no idea if you even need to use one or not, but his system will keep a "legal to carry even on an airplane" weapon in your hand at all times.

What sword technique I learned with the bokken carries over pretty well with a cane or any smaller stout stick - I'm not to cane point yet, but I may well be at some point.

Then again, I may go AOW shotgun cane at that point too.

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