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I have my 3 year old son with me alot. I work 2nd shift and run errands and do groceries or go to the park during the day. Say a man was approaching us very aggresively but unarmed. It's known that his intentions are to fight and/or mug me. If I'm by myself, I'd have no problem defending myself with my fists. Never been in a fight, but was an infantry marine for four years, 5'11 220 lbs. and pretty sure I can hold my own. What worries me is if I'm with my son and he got a lucky shot in and knocked me out? What would happen to my son? He would be at the mercy of this guy... That being said, am I within my rights to pull a gun on him and/or shoot if he attacks with my son with me? Ultimately I would believe my son was in danger. Any thoughts would be appreciated...
 

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NO hesitation - He has 1 chance to walk away immediately or it will be the last mistake he ever makes.

After that, it's 2 real quicks shots to the chest, and 1 to the brainpan.....
 

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First and foremost, refer to the applicable defense statutes for the state in which you live.......nothing anyone else says here really matters until you understand how the actual law reads in your individual state.

Now, having said that, the vast majority of states allow the use of deadly force in those instances where you have a reasonable fear that either you, or someone else is in imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm from another person. If you were to pull your gun in the situation you described, after the fact, you would have to be able to convince the authorities, and potentially a jury of that fear. Given your size and training, even with your child present, that could be difficult unless the other person presented some kind of weapon.
 

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You don't know what they BG is there for; you could find out later that the BG in question was a convicted sex offender whose specialty was small children, like yours. Either way, there are few juries out there that will convict someone defending themselves and their small children from at a minimum felony assault.

I know my attorney would put that small child up on the stand and let the jury see him/her scared to death and crying that "man was going to hurt my daddy"........

"MR. FOREMAN, DO YOU HAVE A VERDICT. "

"Yes your honor we do. to the charge of Murder in the 1st degree we find the defendant NOT GUILTY......"
 

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You have given multiple scenarios in your post.

First, if the guy is approaching you and is displaying agressive intentions, you need to put distance or something in between the aggresor and you and the boy. I am about your size but gave up fist fighting about 20 years ago, shortly after I left the Army.

Loud verbal commands of get back, move on or whatever can be used while creating distance or putting getting behind a bench or whatever.

If all else fails, he is unrelenting and it comes to the point where your going to have to defend yourself, well then I guess presenting your gun would be in order. If you had pepper spray or some other deterant that would probably be the wiser move. But if all else fails use what you have got. Luckily in Texas we can present a firearm as a deterant against an agressor without reprecussions, and hopefully the aggresor would back off an you and your kid could go home safely.


Sec. 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.
 

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You have given multiple scenarios in your post.

First, if the guy is approaching you and is displaying agressive intentions, you need to put distance or something in between the aggresor and you and the boy. I am about your size but gave up fist fighting about 20 years ago, shortly after I left the Army.

Loud verbal commands of get back, move on or whatever can be used while creating distance or putting getting behind a bench or whatever.

If all else fails, he is unrelenting and it comes to the point where your going to have to defend yourself, well then I guess presenting your gun would be in order. If you had pepper spray or some other deterant that would probably be the wiser move. But if all else fails use what you have got.
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+1 on the loud, verbal commands! They give him an opportunity to think twice about his choice of victims, and it gives any bystanders the idea that you are the one being attacked (that will help you in court). All this while moving to create distance/find cover (this also aids your court argument).

However, what is the clear indication that he is going to harm you. Spidey Sense may be great in SA, but it just doesn't hold up in court. So, what is the "line in the sand" as far as your reasonable assurance of imminent danger?
 

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People get killed all the time because they were "in a fight" - that kid in Chicago got "beat up." He's dead now. That's assault and you could end up getting your head stomped in, becoming wheelchair-bound for the rest of your life. I don't need to get in a fist fight - if a guy makes it clear that he wants to fight me, I say I'm not fighting. If he advances and I have no means of escape, I draw my weapon.

I can run away just fine, but my girlfriend can't. That's when the situation changes and my ability to escape is limited.
 

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I have to believe that a reasonable person on a jury would justify a person defending their children. An attorney would try to paint the perp as the victim, but it would be better to be jailed, than to have your child harmed.
 

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I agree that it would most likely be found to be justifiable.

But what if it wasn’t? Look at the absolute worst outcome for each scenario:

Draw your weapon and shoot: You’re son is alive and you’re in prison.

You don’t draw your weapon: You’re son is abducted by a child molester, dead, or both. You get to live with the fact that you could have stopped it the rest of you life.

Easy decision.
 

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I agree that it would most likely be found to be justifiable.

But what if it wasn’t? Look at the absolute worst outcome for each scenario:

Draw your weapon and shoot: You’re son is alive and you’re in prison.

You don’t draw your weapon: You’re son is abducted by a child molester, dead, or both. You get to live with the fact that you could have stopped it the rest of you life.

Easy decision.
I think a more prudent decision would be to confront the aggressor and display your weapon while commanding them to back off and leave you alone.

Frequently a false dichotomy exists between not drawing and shooting. The third option of drawing but not immediately shooting is also often a viable choice.
 

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I think a more prudent decision would be to confront the aggressor and display your weapon while commanding them to back off and leave you alone.

Frequently a false dichotomy exists between not drawing and shooting. The third option of drawing but not immediately shooting is also often a viable choice.
That's why I said worst case scenario.

But if you draw, you better be willing to shoot.
 

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If all else fails, he is unrelenting and it comes to the point where your going to have to defend yourself, well then I guess presenting your gun would be in order. If you had pepper spray or some other deterant that would probably be the wiser move. But if all else fails use what you have got. Luckily in Texas we can present a firearm as a deterant against an agressor without reprecussions, and hopefully the aggresor would back off an you and your kid could go home safely after calling the police.
Added the only thing I think this advice is missing in bold.

Oh, and as a parent myself, I can tell you that I will do anything to protect my son from harm. It's not really a conscious decision either. In the event that someone has intent to do harm to your child (and/or yourself), your fatherly instincts should instantly kick in.

Now, with that being said, remember what farron said about trying to avoid the situation. Court fee's and prison isn't going to do your son any good either. Avoid and flee if possible.

And from what my LEO friends tell me, if you're going to shoot in self-defense, be sure to kill. Removes the chance for him to lie and say you shot him for no reason.

Dead men can't lie.
 

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my daughter?...he dies.
 

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Remember with a little one in tow it makes it difficult to retreat. I agree with one good warning and if I had to fight it would be with everything I have at my disposal until all threats are gone. No one is going to hurt my children when I am around.
 

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My grandchildren will NOT be harmed (not even close)...:nono:...'nuff said'.:ziplip:
 

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Oh sure. "Avoid and flee"

Pick up your 3 yr old child, and I'll bet money that a fat old man with a bad knee (like me) can run you down, and beat you insensible with my ASP, (didn't see that before, didja?) much less a spry young thug or his partner.

I don't care if you are a marine or a blasted cyborg, the very fact that you have a child with you means that you are more of a target, and are SEVERELY handicapped in a fight.

You not only have fear for your own life, you have fear for your CHILD'S life. If you have someone coming up acting like he "wants to fight", get your head straight. It probably has nothing to do with YOU, it is about stealing your child. (Oh, sure, that NEVER happens!) Even a hostile brawler knows that if a child is injured or killed in a fight with a parent, he will get OBLITERATED in court.

If you take a beat down, or are even incapacitated for a few seconds you risk having your child injured, killed, snatched, or straying into traffic. And am I to believe that some of you will let that happen while you keep a gun holstered? Are you kidding me?

LOSING IS NOT AN OPTION.

Come on people. Show me FIVE examples of citizens in this country with child in tow employing righteous deadly force, and going to prison for it. Not scare stories.
 

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Show me FIVE examples of citizens in this country with child in tow employing righteous deadly force, and going to prison for it. Not scare stories.
+1. I would settle for one example!
 

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You don't know what they BG is there for; you could find out later that the BG in question was a convicted sex offender whose specialty was small children, like yours. Either way, there are few juries out there that will convict someone defending themselves and their small children from at a minimum felony assault.

I know my attorney would put that small child up on the stand and let the jury see him/her scared to death and crying that "man was going to hurt my daddy"........

"MR. FOREMAN, DO YOU HAVE A VERDICT. "

"Yes your honor we do. to the charge of Murder in the 1st degree we find the defendant NOT GUILTY......"
I think we all wished it would always be this clean. However,...
 
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