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Hi all,

I'd like to start of by saying I would purchase a real firearm if I could. It isn't my preference to carry an airgun, but living in San Jose California, it s near impossible to get a concealed carry permit, and I'm only 18 so I can't buy a semiautomatic pistol or any pistol for that matter. Airguns don't constitute as firearms in the US because they don't use a small explosion to propel the project. So legally I can purchase and conceal carry one. I live in an area with crime, and recently was jumped by two guys. I'm only five foot 6, weighing in at 150 lbs, so most people, like the guys who jumped me, are quite a bit bigger than I am, making any hand to hand combat difficult. I won't go into detail, but it was night time and as soon as I noticed the two figures walking behind me beginning to drift apart from each other I knew what was happening. One attacked and I nearly instantaneously had him on the ground unconscious (I have taken self defense classes for more than ten years). I saw the other person with something in their hand (I thought it was a knife) and quickly got out my knife. He ended up having a taser with he began stabbing at me with. While grabbing his wrist he caught my arm with the taser (It hurt), and my body immediately kind of spasmed out and I fell over. But not before I managed to lodge my knife into his left shoulder. I quickly got back up and chased him off, and the best part was he left his friend still knocked out on the sidewalk. At that moment I thought, if only I had a gun.

I've always loved guns, and really can't wait until I'm old enough to purchase a pistol and go to the range (If guns will still even be legal by then), but in the mean time, I'm stuck in this silly situation where I need something more than a knife to defend myself, but airguns seem to be my only choice. I plan on getting a .22, 7 shot repeater pistol with 600 fps:

Ataman AP16 Regulated Compact Air Pistol, Black. Air guns

And am looking at these pellets:

https://www.amazon.com/Hornet-Pelle...473147849&sr=8-17&keywords=22+caliber+pellets
https://www.amazon.com/Rabbit-Magnu...0_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=9WNQCB6V6VHC7X9HV9K5
https://www.amazon.com/22-Cal-32-4-...0_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=PS45WQT36FBQNQCXAS9T

QUESTION: Obviously if an attacker had a real gun, I would be screwed with just a .22 pellet gun, but in California, I would be just as screwed if I got caught at age 18 with a real pistol at any time. Would the airgun listed above have helped me in an attack situation like the one I experienced (described in 1st paragraph)? Would putting a few rounds into an attacker give me time to either run or take offensive action (if I thought necessary) with my knife while they are off guard? Better yet, am I over looking over options besides Airguns?

Again, I know it would be so much simpler if I could just get a real gun, but living in an area like San Jose, California makes it hard for law abiding citizens to protect themselves with firearms and forget about it if you're not 21. Relocating seems to be my best option but that's out of the picture for at least another few years.

Thanks for any help in advance,
Dante
 

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Dante,

No, that is a really bad idea. From start to finish. I'll add more later.

Continue your HTH training, and have your trainers push you harder and faster;
Stress knife work in your training;
Develop your SA more;
Stay out of bad areas; and
Stay out of bad areas

If you get in a knife fight with a skilled opponent, you will be cut. How badly depends on you and your opponent, but you will be cut.

A pellet gun will probably get you killed, or arrested, or in a deeper mess than you otherwise would be.

I am assuming pepper spray is probably illegal, which I would recommend if it were not. A small flashlight, of high quality, would be a completely legal addition to your "toolbox" as would a roll of dimes to use as a striking object.

Pocket LED Light
 

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Even though an airgun is not a firearm it would still be a concealed weapon, and would still land you in jail . You would also stand a very good chance of losing your gun rights before you even can use them. It's just a bad idea all the way around.

If I were you I'd read very carefully the CA knife laws. They have some specifics about blade size. And you can carry pepper spray. Good Luck DR
 

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For carry, I guess I couldn't say.

For home, a nice 12 gauge would do, and you're old enough to get one of those.

Or an AR, for that matter. Assuming you can have one in that place.
 

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I've spend some time in some "tangled-and-dark" locales. I've also trained, seriously & extensively, in a few martial arts (including knife technique). I don't know the knife (or other weapon) restrictions in California. Yet I KNOW your Airgun Solution is a bad idea. Listen to R&G (don't let his head dress fool ya') he's both wise & prudent. My solution would be to investigate (train?) in yawara-jitsu. I, personally, like the koppo stick. One of mine's a AA flashlight. Even in the WORST scenario, it's tough to declare a 5-6" wooden stick either dangerous, illegal, or carried with malicious intent. I have acquaintances in the highly-restricted Euro Zone who carry a tightly-rolled/dried rawhide, dog chew toy (they're brick hard) to use as a yawara. I would NOT WISH to assault them. Remember, my young friend, it's never the arrow that gets you. It's ALWAYS...the INDIAN. :image035:
 

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A pellet gun against someone with anything less than a firearm is likely going to only slightly irritate them in the moment, unless you connect with an eyeball. By the time a pellet passes through even one layer of clothing, it will have lost so much force that it may not even penetrate the skin, much less reach a vital organ. If the other person does have a gun, you'll probably end up dead. To me it would be worse than bringing a knife to a gunfight, because at least in close quarters a knife can do some real damage.
 
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California knife laws are fairly reasonable, although a few areas have restrictions. You can carry pepper spray up to a certain size.

As someone said, a concealed air gun will get you in trouble.

I have a friend who is in his 70s and carries a knife. He is about the last guy I'd want mad at me. He is, however a retired Army Green Beret and still teaches Marines knife fighting.

You probably should peruse your martial arts training
 

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Like others, I would suggest putting aside the idea of the airgun, even if it is a super-duper $1000 airgun. At the end of the day, regardless of stats on the box, airguns generally can't penetrate clothing and generally don't penetrate beyond the surface of the skin. In other words, you'd just piss someone off really, really bad.

If you carry a knife, I'd suggest it being the weapon of your last resort. Pepper spray is very legal in CA, and for someone prepared to spend that much on an air pistol, I think you could afford something really good and proven. Kimber makes a model called the Pepper Blaster. If you've got 10 years of self defense training, I'd suggest looking at many of the other less than lethal but still effective items out there.
 

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First off anyone using an air gun for self-defense unless you're talking about defending yourself of rats and squirrels is a bad idea. There are enough posts on this and many other forums discussing caliber size for self-defense weapons and no place this is suggest that any form of airgun is adequate. Realized that any self-defense scenario you must be in fear of severe bodily harm or death before you present or attempt to use deadly force in self-defense . If that's the case presenting in the Air gun certainly is not going to stop someone from knifing you, shooting you, or beating you severely.
Secondly you must realize that in any self-defense scenario where were at weapon is presented there will be Law enforcement involvement. Any police officer that shows up on the scene where there's any form of weapons involved especially the report of a gun is going to approach that scenario with a heightened sense of at the very least their own well-being . I certainly would not take the chance of them realizing that you only had an air gun. if you have any doubt that a scenario like that highly increases your chances of being shot you need only speak to the 13-year-old the presented a BB gun at a police officer ( see the post in this forum ). Oh that's right you can't because he's dead.
As far as your stature being a hindrance in nth self-defense I would suggest that you find a qualified instructor of Krav Maga. Possibly join some gun clubs the NRA get some handgun and firearm experience and when you're old enough apply for your permit.
Good luck and please Forget any ideas of an air gun for self-defense
 

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Ditto what everyone else said about carrying an airgun; bad idea. Also ditto the advice to increase your hand-to-hand training. Just make sure you are training in an art that is geared toward actual combat and not for sport. Krav Maga is excellent as are a handful of others. Remember that a knife is considered a lethal weapon so is not to be used indiscriminately. Pepper spray is legal in CA and should be carried. If it has a hard plastic case it can also be used as a yawara stick.

In your training, focus on targeting the vulnerable points of the human body and work with multiple assailants. Also develop your situational awareness and always have a plan to extract yourself. Lastly, stay out of bad areas.
 
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I have a slightly different take on things than others.

1) An airgun is 95% a bluff. It cannot stop someone who's determined to hurt you. It'll definitely sting like hell and may require medical attention but won't be an emergency and you can ignore quite a bit of pain with adrenaline alone. However, 99% of street trash is looking for a quick buck and an easy victim. They do NOT want to get into a gun or knife battle with anyone and pretty much any show of determined opposition with a weapon of any kind from you will likely scare them off. Defensive gun use doesn't necessarily mean shooting the bad guy dead. Even pulling the gun and not even pointing it often results in them turning and running, that counts.

2) I'd take a real close look at laws in CA. I'd be surprised if you could legally carry a loaded, ready to fire airgun.

3) The gun you linked to looks bad-ass! I like it for what it is but as something to carry, it's huge.

4) Going back to 1. It's a bluff. In a bad situation you could pull it hoping to scare them off but I'd be reluctant to pull the trigger because that would TELL them it's a fake and now you've got a scary looking airgun that they might like to have. Trying to fire it may result in the situation getting even worse for you. If you're willing to bluff and you know some martial arts, looking at what knifes may be legal would likely be a better option. You pull a decent looking knife and have the attitude to back it up, then if push comes to shove, it's not a bluff and it can actually do damage.
 

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Uh fyi Taser are legal to carry no permit

and no over 2 0z spray is legal


For the love of god dont carry a pellet gun that is a great way to die quick

Most of the ones in handgun size wont do much to stop someone

Yes they are air guns that can bring down big game /people but they are big honking piston rifles

Or move to az you can OC here at 18 and get a gun PPT at 18


Frankly if i was to carry a non gun I would carry a le mat smoke stick gun ..Legally not a gun though I think CA still clases them as gun for carry ...CA after all

Though I might get one as a last ditch HD option I mean what 7 .45 balls over a 20 gauge if a hand cannon even today
 
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IMHO... Like most have said, an airgun is a terrible idea... Sounds to me like you got the better of them without any assistance what so ever. Good for you.. Just continue you MA training and get some pepper spray.
 

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Welcome to the forum, and I'm glad you survived being attacked by two individuals. However, a pellet gun won't help you. A regular .22LR fires a 40 grain projectile at 1050 fps; which is considered woefully inadequate for self defense. Yes, the .22 has stopped plenty of attackers, but there are also plenty that it hasn't stopped. Now consider a pellet gun with a pellet weighing less than 20 grains and only traveling 600 fps. Penetration will only be a few inches at best, and soft tissue damage would be comparable to getting stabbed with a screwdriver (not much damage). In short, a pellet gun is highly unlikely to stop an attacker.

Then there is also the legal side of it. Just because something is not a firearm does not mean that it is legal to carry. California likely has laws addressing carrying replica or lookalike firearms in public. I was informed that carrying something as innocuous as a screwdriver can land you in jail if you carry it with the intent to use it as a weapon (even for self defense).

What I would recommend is to do the following:
1. Continue to work on your situational awareness so you will be able to see attacks coming and react in advance
2. Continue to work on your hand to hand combat skills. You obviously have a very solid foundation which is probably what saved you that night.
3. Purchase, practice with, and carry pepper spray. Don't buy those dinky little Walmart cans; ask your local police what they use.
4. Look into California stun gun/taser laws. You may be able to register to carry one.
5. Don't do anything stupid (like carrying a pellet gun) that would cause you to lose your right to purchase an actual firearm when the time comes.
 

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I learn when I was in my late 20s to defend my self with a cane. I mess up my leg when I was overseas working for my uncle and while my leg was immobilize i had to use a cane. A friend of mine dad was a martial arts instructor that taught me a few moves on defending myself with a cane. I lived on lower greenville ave in dallas texas back then and I was hobbling home from the greenville ave bar and grill and some idiot thought I was a easy mark for a mugging with a knife since my leg was in a full boot. Nope I wasnt and he found out the hardway.

Now years later I had a stroke when I was 52 and I have to use a cane for helping me walk now days and I brush up on what was taught me from back then but now I have my LTC and carry a taurus 605 plus I use a cane. If you go the cane route get one with the shepherds hook Natural Ash Wood Tourist Handle Walking Cane
 

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Keep asking advice and learning. You presented a great question during unfortunate times. California is doing everything it can to protect the bad guys.

In your home a self defense shotgun. Out in the real world, Self defense, with martial arts will help you in every defensive scenario. Even when and where you able to carry legally.
 

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I have a slightly different take on things than others.

1) An airgun is 95% a bluff. It cannot stop someone who's determined to hurt you. It'll definitely sting like hell and may require medical attention but won't be an emergency and you can ignore quite a bit of pain with adrenaline alone. However, 99% of street trash is looking for a quick buck and an easy victim. They do NOT want to get into a gun or knife battle with anyone and pretty much any show of determined opposition with a weapon of any kind from you will likely scare them off. Defensive gun use doesn't necessarily mean shooting the bad guy dead. Even pulling the gun and not even pointing it often results in them turning and running, that counts.

2) I'd take a real close look at laws in CA. I'd be surprised if you could legally carry a loaded, ready to fire airgun.

3) The gun you linked to looks bad-ass! I like it for what it is but as something to carry, it's huge.

4) Going back to 1. It's a bluff. In a bad situation you could pull it hoping to scare them off but I'd be reluctant to pull the trigger because that would TELL them it's a fake and now you've got a scary looking airgun that they might like to have. Trying to fire it may result in the situation getting even worse for you. If you're willing to bluff and you know some martial arts, looking at what knifes may be legal would likely be a better option. You pull a decent looking knife and have the attitude to back it up, then if push comes to shove, it's not a bluff and it can actually do damage.
Respectfully, IMHO, you had a substantially "different take on things than others". Long story short, bluffing is fine in a poker game. But even then, it can be a problem if you...get called. :blink:

If ya' wanna' sting someone, carry a hornet's nest!
 
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