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Well, they certainly are assimilating now aren't they. What's next, allowing drag queen attire?
Worked for Cpl Klinger
 
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Well, the army did adopt virtually the same policy back in 2017.
 
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Why can`t they all be Spiffed up like the Iranian Guard Forces with they`re Spats,Shases,White Gloves,Hats and Port Arms Marching in a Goose Step Parade???.
Bigtime Sarcasm here!.
 

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A lot of noise about nothing, IMO. I've been in multinational units with Sikhs, and most of those guys were warriors in the true sense of the word. I've also granted local headgear waivers to Sikhs in the AF under my command as a reasonable accommodation of their religious requirements. If worn on the flightline they had to be as secure as a standard stocking cap or secured with lanyard or tether.

The bigger flap is sone people have issue with Sikhs and muslims serving in the military. Well, news flash, it's not up to the military. That's a policy decision outside the scope of the DoD. Don't like it? Then get Congress to change the law, otherwise DoD is required to allow all religions to serve.

Because people of any faith are allowed to serve, then the military is also legally required to make reasonable accommodations for religious apparel dictated by the religion. The lawyers have decided at an AF service wide scope that certain accommodations need to be allowed unless precluded by specific mission requirements.

As a pro 2A group, we here should be celebrating the decision by the AF to better comply with the Constitution's protection of religious rights because the same argument can be made for reasonable accommodation of our 2A rights. The blanket prohibition of carrying firearms on military installations is an unseasonably broad policy violation of our 2A rights. Any place a turban is allowed is a place we should be able to legally carry personally owned firearms.
The reason this is not a win is because there are different standards for different people. If someone is a Sikh, then they can grow a beard. However, if someone isn’t, if they show up for work with a 5 o’clock shadow, some uniform stickler will be all over them about how the military has standards. Clearly the Air Force has decided there is no actual need for people to be clean shaven.
 
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The primary purpose for a uniform is unit cohesion and morale.

I asked my first sergeants what the impact was when I approved a local waiver to allow a Sikh to continue wearing his headgear and granting a shaving waiver. I was told the flight erupted in cheers of celebration because I have a reputation of being a hard ass, and that two non-Sikh members of his flight signed reenlistement papers that day which subjected them to an A-stan deployment which they knew was only a few months away.

When we serve we give up some rights, but not all of them, and those we give up should be based on military necessity, not for minor inconveniences of the big machine or because leaders can't figure out a simple way to meet both the needs of the individuals and the service. My airmen are not merely pawns, and I refuse to treat them that way as long as I have a say in it.
Considering the age group I can see why. Kids today don't respect tradition. Their way is ALWAYS the better way, even when they're shown they are wrong.

My nephew is Air Force, just reassigned back to Okinawa. He works on fuel systems on an prop plane that's still in use as well as teaches new recruits. He follows his planes, that's about all i know about it. He's been in for just over 10 years now I think. Second deployment to the Japan area. He was there when the big earthquake hit Japan.

I was AF as was my younger brother. I don't like this caving to foreign ways, it defies long held tradition. This change just annoys me.
 

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The Air Force hasn't been a part of the US military since it separated from the Army.
 

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I’m going to guess more inner branch rivalry than an actual serious comment. I love to crack jokes about the Air Force, but I also like having a bird overhead.
 
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The reason this is not a win is because there are different standards for different people. If someone is a Sikh, then they can grow a beard. However, if someone isn’t, if they show up for work with a 5 o’clock shadow, some uniform stickler will be all over them about how the military has standards. Clearly the Air Force has decided there is no actual need for people to be clean shaven.
The anti-facial hair cabal, and sock police in general, needs to worry more about combat effectiveness than being uniform sticklers, IMO.


Considering the age group I can see why. Kids today don't respect tradition. Their way is ALWAYS the better way, even when they're shown they are wrong.

My nephew is Air Force, just reassigned back to Okinawa. He works on fuel systems on an prop plane that's still in use as well as teaches new recruits. He follows his planes, that's about all i know about it. He's been in for just over 10 years now I think. Second deployment to the Japan area. He was there when the big earthquake hit Japan.

I was AF as was my younger brother. I don't like this caving to foreign ways, it defies long held tradition. This change just annoys me.
Tradition is valuable. But when tradition is clung to in a religiously zealous manner it's worth challenging and asking why. If there is good rationale, keep the tradition, if not then change should be considered.

If you don't like the AF caving to foreign ways, then lobby Congress to have certain classes of people barred from service, but don't expect military leaders to create a backdoor method of barring service by imposing and enforcing unnecessary rules.

Allowing a small number of people a religious accommodation isn't going to significantly detract from good order and discipline. In fact, the opposite can be true. The airmen I mentioned who celebrated their team mate being allowed to continue complying with his faith deployed both to A-stan and the fight against ISIS, and the rates they turned jets for combat sorties were some of the highest on record.

People can scoff at and deride the younger generation all they want, but when it comes to getting bombs on target they're doing no less than previous generations.

Overall, our government has developed a tradition of being rather anti-rights, despite the BoR, and it's worth pushing back against.
 

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Tradition: LOL. Sorry, just got to laugh at that one since one people talk about "tradition,", IMO, they are talking about what they were used to.

I have read many articles on this topic and the US military does not have any long-standing tradition as far as grooming. For easy numbers, let us say our military has been in service for 220 years or so. This one article alone points out changes in grooming standards and attitudes about 5-7 times

Hair Has Long and Short History in U.S. Armed Forces

The only thing I care about is fairness to all people that serve. I don't care about these so-called "traditions".
 

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My sons went to Norwich University, The Oldest Private Military College in the Country 1819..... (besides the Service Academies) With that said, several years back, a female "Rook" (first year cadet) lobbied to be allowed to wear her Habjib (the University is predominately a Army atmosphere) well, the Powers that be, allowed her entrance to the School, and once She got that OK, she dropped. Seems to me, with that in mind, it's more like "I know they will cave, and I'll get my way" mentality today, just to prove her point....She never attended once she got her way. There was much to do about it too.
I know I'm old school type, but some things should never change......
That's why we have Uniforms and Regulations in place......
and Yep... The Army was the first to adopt the Regulation Change.....

https://www.army.mil/article/181080/turbans_beards_dreadlocks_now_permissible_for_some_soldiers
 

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^^^Maybe she realized it might not be wise to get what one wishes for...
 

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The primary purpose for a uniform is unit cohesion and morale.

I asked my first sergeants what the impact was when I approved a local waiver to allow a Sikh to continue wearing his headgear and granting a shaving waiver. I was told the flight erupted in cheers of celebration because I have a reputation of being a hard ass, and that two non-Sikh members of his flight signed reenlistement papers that day which subjected them to an A-stan deployment which they knew was only a few months away.

When we serve we give up some rights, but not all of them, and those we give up should be based on military necessity, not for minor inconveniences of the big machine or because leaders can't figure out a simple way to meet both the needs of the individuals and the service. My airmen are not merely pawns, and I refuse to treat them that way as long as I have a say in it.
BRAVO SIR!!!!!!!!!!:smile:
 

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Discussion Starter #59
I am not advocating denying any religion from serving.
Just saying that maintaining a whatever you want to call it,a sameness puts everyone in the same state.
Some will applaud the change but some will not.
So keeping everything uniform in my opinion is the way to go.
My dad always said that when he served in the Navy, he had to give up a lot of his individuality.
But it was his decision and it was for the greater good.
When he got out he could then go back to who he was
 

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One simple explanation is that Christianity does not require any outward specific hair or dress appearance and therefore the US forces have never had a requirement in the past because Christianity has been the majority religion.
The nation is becoming more and more diverse and a lot of people can't handle that. The solution for those people is easy.......you will die in a few years and then will not have to live in a diverse nation.:danceban:
 
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