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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just added the foregrip strap on my New Haven. See my earlier post about the Raptor pistol grip from Shockwave Technologies:

I have a side saddle shell carrier en route to add to the cheek-side of the receiver, and then she'll be done. The foregrip really gives you something to hold onto, especially carrying it. It has 2 screws per end and is very solidly-attached.

I will post final pics once the sidesaddle is installed... with the strap and side saddle, I am at $180 into this versatile and handy 12 ga!

Hard to beat that price, and you can't get something this functional for twice the price off the shelf!
 

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Looks AWESOME!!! I just installed a forend strap this week as well and I'm currently waiting on my new laser sight that should be here tomorrow! Midway has the Laserlyte Center Mass sight on sale for $90 (regularly $120)!!! Just a heads up for ya! I'm still on the fence about the Raptor, but it does look nice on your rig!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Much more manageable recoil with this grip. I had a standard pistol grip once before; the right-angle design directs all of the recoil into your wrist and forearm. NOT pleasant.

The Raptor grip moves backward in your hand, directing most of the recoil into both arms, and much lest felt impact in the wrist and forearm. The grip seems to allow the shooter to absorb the impact by letting the gun's grip recoil backwards, instead of slamming the right-angled pistol grip into the shooter.

Hard to describe, but it is much more pleasant to shoot. And for its purpose as a true scatter gun, it does the job very very well!
 

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A "scatter gun" still has to be aimed. Other than eliminating the possibility of putting the gun up to your shoulder, I'm not sure what this grip does that you cannot do with a conventional shoulder stock? Is a few inches of length for storage such a big deal that you would limit the versatility of the weapon?

Educate me - I'm confused. :confused:
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Oh come on.... give me a break.

I don't generally hold my 12-ga shotgun by my teeth, nor do I use any part of my face to pull the trigger, so the chances of knocking out teeth is pretty slim.

Any style of pistol-grip on a shotgun eliminates the ability to shoulder-fire the weapon: if you want to shoulder it, don't put a pistol grip on it. And as far as being confusing? A pistol grip gives you much greater concealment, much more weapon control in tight/Close quarters, and makes a shotgun a viable weapon to use in a car, hallway, or backpack.

If it "limits the versatility of the weapon" by making it shorter ( and it's way more than a few inches), perhaps you would opt for a full-stock shotgun...and good luck hanging on to it if you are in a hallway or Close quarters encounter. Personally, I think it ENHANCES the versatility of the weapon.
 

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Well, I don't plan on concealing my shotgun, nor using it from inside a car.

If I want to shoot a shotgun from the hip, it is entirely possible to do so with a conventional shoulder stock - the part that rests on the shoulder will just be next to your hip, or slightly behind it. Really no difference as far as protecting the gun from an attempted grab.

Hey, if it works for you - have at it.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
it works for me!

And since I seriously doubt my Shortie is the only pistol-gripped shotgun on the planet, I"m guessing there are maybe 5 or 6 other people that feel the same way.

Nothing wrong with shoulder stocks on a 12 ga: I have a Remington 870 Tactical that is a fine weapon. Pistol grip integral with the shoulder stock, very quick to bring on target, and a mere 41 inches long, compared to the Shortie at 30.5 inches. If I am going hiking, camping, or an extended road trip, or to a remote wilderness or even inner city destination, I will likely pack the Shortie. And if something goes bump in the night, I feel much better toting the Shortie down the hallways of the house and checking rooms over the almost 4-foot long Remington. And aiming a shotgun? I'm guessing that at a distance of 20 feet, your pattern will spread about 4 feet? Seriously? I'm not sure how much aiming you need to do if a 4-foot spread has to be aimed to hit your target. Point-and-shoot should enable a 4-foot pattern to hit the target: if not, said shooter should trade the 12-ga in for a rifle and forget about shotguns.

But that's probably just me....and those other 5 or 6 people.
 

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And aiming a shotgun? I'm guessing that at a distance of 20 feet, your pattern will spread about 4 feet? Seriously? I'm not sure how much aiming you need to do if a 4-foot spread has to be aimed to hit your target. Point-and-shoot should enable a 4-foot pattern to hit the target: if not, said shooter should trade the 12-ga in for a rifle and forget about shotguns.
It's a common myth that shotguns spray death in a massive arc and don't need to be aimed.

Unless you have some weird-as-hell choke and/or ammo, you're overestimating the spread. I'm assuming we're talking 00 buck out of an 18.5" barrel. The spread will likely be less than a foot. More like 8-10" at most.

Even if you do achieve massive spread patterns, remember that all that means is there will be fewer pellets hitting the BG. Generally, you want as many as possible to hit the BG.

Instead of guessing your spread, I suggest you actually go out and pattern the gun. Hopefully you'll come to the conclusion that yes, shotguns do in fact need to be aimed and you can indeed miss your target.
 

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It's a common myth that shotguns spray death in a massive arc and don't need to be aimed.

Unless you have some weird-as-hell choke and/or ammo, you're overestimating the spread. I'm assuming we're talking 00 buck out of an 18.5" barrel. The spread will likely be less than a foot. More like 8-10" at most.

Even if you do achieve massive spread patterns, remember that all that means is there will be fewer pellets hitting the BG. Generally, you want as many as possible to hit the BG.

Instead of guessing your spread, I suggest you actually go out and pattern the gun. Hopefully you'll come to the conclusion that yes, shotguns do in fact need to be aimed and you can indeed miss your target.
I would totally agree and I have shot them both ways. The birds head grip give the gun a gnarly look but as far as being usable for home defense, I want to aim it the way they were made to be aimed. I've put enough 00 off the target with the pistol grip to come to the conclusion that unless you have some very restrictive size requirements, that setup is more for looks than for purpose.
 

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OP - As suggested, please do pattern your shotgun. You will be surprised.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I am not using 00 buckshot in my shotgun for home defense. I am using #7 birdshot, and the pattern at 20 feet is more than 3 feet in diameter. I haven't measured it, but I do know that 00 buck is designed for a much tighter spread pattern due to the much heavier and larger pellets. Anyone who uses 00 buck in their home defense weapon is either seriously under-estimating the damage and penetration that 00 buck causes, or has solid brick walls and doesn't care about wall penetration.

Point-and-shoot for a short barreled 12 ga is nothing new: it is efficient and accurate, in the right conditions: a target at the end of a hallway is a perfect example: one does not need to shoulder a shotgun and line up a sight picture in a 20-30 foot hallway! pointing and shooting will hit the target, barring any physical or mental defects that would prevent said shooter from hitting the broad side of a barn with a watermelon.

Trap? Aim it. Skeet? Aim it. 12-ga slugs? Aim it.

A shortie 12-ga for home defense? a pistol grip works just fine with point-and-shoot. Unless maybe some of you have hallways and rooms (and cars) that are much much bigger than my humble single-wide. ;)

If you have a differing opinion, feel free to post up your own thread. This was about a pistol-grip attachment on a short barrel shotgun. If you don't like them, think they aren't versatile, can't be used to hit the broad side of a barn, etc.. that's fine: I will gladly read your post about your opinions. But I'd like to keep this post on this topic, if you don't mind! ;)
 

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Dawg, stand your ground. It's your baby and you get to make it any way you want. I love it and think it looks "purty".
 
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Anyone who uses 00 buck in their home defense weapon is either seriously under-estimating the damage and penetration that 00 buck causes, or has solid brick walls and doesn't care about wall penetration.
I know full well what kind of damage 00 buck does. That's why I choose it over, say, #7 bird shot. If I have to fire my shotgun, I want to put my target down, not tickle him. But each to their own, and I'm sure our living arrangements or other circumstances may dictate the use of different ammunition.

Anyway, to remain on-topic...

I'm not saying a stock-less shotgun has no application, but I feel that in general the benefits of having a stock have greater value than any perceived benefit of not having one.

Ultimately it's your choice. The grip is very unique and has a certain flair to it, I'll admit!
 

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I guess you are planning on being home invaded by a flock of dove or you only want to scare your intruder like Shotgun Joe advises. No way would I trust #7 for home defense. #3 or #2 would be about as small as I would want to go if stopping the threat is the intent (but that's just me). :smile:

No offense, but if you post up stuff that defies what a lot of us here feel is wise, and there are plenty of knowledgeable members on here, then you have to accept that folks are going to give you their opinions (which may not reflect your own), it's part of the 'public' part of a public forum. The real bottom line for most of is maybe you'll take some good advice, or maybe you won't, but the next guy that might be looking for shotgun ideas for HD will see alternate perspectives on what works for all of us. If you like what you've got, then great.
 

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this is my HD shotgun. its a 870 clone from interstate arms. ive got a magpul forend, phoenix tech six position tactical pistol grip stock with a 5 shell carrier onthe butt, a red dot sight, and a ssniper light with strobe setting. ive put this thing thru its pases and its an 870 for a fraction of the price. 20130429_221633.jpg 20130429_221633.jpg useing 00 buck and slugs for HD
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Tell you what, TX expat:

let me know when you volunteer to be "tickled" with a few rounds of #7 12 gauge. Somehow I don't think you would leave the encounter with the same dismissive attitude or opinion that you have so repeatedly shared here. Frankly, I'm not sure at 20 feet that such a "tickle" would be a survivable wound.

The fact is, I have a lot of reasons to use #7 shot for my home defense shotgun, and it doesn't "defy" what you would call wisdom. There are other people in my home that I would not want to be hit by a 00 buck shot if they were behind a wall in my home. You use your 00 any where you want: it's your gun and your liability. In your immense wisdom, I assume you also counsel people to "tickle" any threats with their lowly .22, .25, .32 or .380 handgun cartridges, too? After all, there's no wisdom in using "under-powered" cartridges, right?

Please: take your over-inflated arrogant and egotistical attitude somewhere else: your idea of "good advice" is worth exactly what I paid for it.
 
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