[Q-ball]

Ok, not really. But it was close enough for me. (I hope this is in the right forum area)

For those who don't know, I started working again (part-time) for an armored transport company. IE-Armored Car, lots of money, and I look like a steak dinner to a lot of BG's.

Today, outside a bank, I was waiting for my messenger/jumper who was in the branch. Messenger/jumper is slang for the guy who gets in and out of the truck. Today, I was the driver.

While he's inside he radios me and tells me to be on the lookout for a guy in bib overalls, green shirt and with a large Army style duffle bag on his shoulder. Apparently the skel was giving the tellers in the bank the heebeegeebees and giving my jumper the evil eye (and then some). My jumper tells me to be ready, he is coming out soon and doesn't want to be surprised by duffle boy.

Duffle boy, at this point, is outside on the sidewalk and looking at a sign on the window. His back is towards the truck. He looks really shady, so I unholster my weapon and position myself at the gunport closest to him (which is in front of the bank on my passenger side). Later, I realize that he really wasn't reading the sign on the window. He was watching me in the reflection of the glass because......

He immediately turns around and starts staring at me. He knew I pulled my weapon and scooted closer. He will stand and stare for the next 5-7 minutes. I am not exaggerating, that is a long time. There is something wrong with this guy. He doesn't move during that time, just stares at me while I stare back.

I radio my jumper and give him a sit-rep. He tells me to get the city police on the phone and get one dispatched to our location. At this point the bank tellers are REALLY freaked out, according to my jumper.

I call 911, in full view of duffle boy (no reaction) and explain to her who I am, where I'm at, what I do (armored car), and what is happening. So what does the operator do?

In a condescending voice she says "So, he's staring at you". She made it a statement. She made it sound like Get over it, he's just staring.

I explain to her that my guy doesn't feel safe going out there and would like police presence. What does she do? Well, she doesn't dispatch an officer. She gets my phone number and tells me an officer will call me back. Unbelieveable! :aargh4:

I inform my jumper of what's going on and duffle boy starts walking west. He makes it about 1/2 a block, turns and starts staring again. I tell my jumper to stay inside.

BTW, my jumper is coming out with a lot of coin and currency. In other words, he has a lot of stuff to load up on the truck. Not like a usual stop with one or two items in his bag and he can just jump in.

Well, duffle boy makes it down the block and is approx. 1 1/2 blocks away. Still no call from the po-po at this point.

My jumper decides to chance it and exits the bank, loads up and we leave the area.

Halfway across town to our next stop we get a call from a police officer. I informed him what happened.

I also informed him that his dispatcher better take me (and the rest our our company) more seriously next time we call for back-up or assistance. In fact, I think my words to the officer were
"Do I have to get in a gunfight to get your dispatcher's attention?"

The officer appologized and stated that they (police) have issues with their dispatch, or words to that effect. He conveyed to me, not directly, that dispatch was lack luster in performance and/or judgement.

BTW, the officer was VERY professional and took my concerns seriously. He was not at all like the dispatcher.

So there's my long story with no shoot out. Thought some of you might find it interesting. We'll see what happens tommorow.

OMT-Oregon is just getting worse and worse for this stuff. We may not be as bad as Cali, but we're not in Kansas anymore.

 

[KenpoTex]

Glad to hear it worked out. I feel for ya on the dispatcher thing...I've had a few "less than satisfactory" conversations with emergency dispatchers who were, to put it nicely, a few french-fries short of a happy-meal.

 

[oregonshooter]

SORC has a huge turn over rate, now you know why.
Glad it worked out.

At what point are you authorized to use dealy force when inside the truck?

Do they have to put a round into the glass before you can fire through the portals?

 

[Bud White]

Nice response by the dispatcher i wonder if you could file a complaint with the Chief

 

[oregonshooter]

They are 3rd party dispatch. He could file a complaint with the SORC sup though.

 

[rstickle]

A lot of 911 organizations are less than great. There have been news stories in my area about people being put on hold, wrong directions passed and other horror stories.

 

[ExSoldier]

A lot of 911 organizations are less than great. There have been news stories in my area about people being put on hold, wrong directions passed and other horror stories.

Kind of like: Hello, this is SUICIDE PREVENTION...can you please HOLD.....click.....Hello? Hello?

 

[ExSoldier]

Ya Done Good

"Do I have to get in a gunfight to get your dispatcher's attention?"

The officer appologized and stated that they (police) have issues with their dispatch, or words to that effect. He conveyed to me, not directly, that dispatch was lack luster in performance and/or judgement.

OMT-Oregon is just getting worse and worse for this stuff. We may not be as bad as Cali, but we're not in Kansas anymore.

Sounds like a hairy situation, alright. Aren't your truck windows heavily tinted? That would make more sense, you don't like to let potential BG's know your relative locations inside the vehicle, I would think. You might suggest this to the company for a truck upgrade.

All in all, I think you did exactly the right thing. I'm surprised though, that the truck isn't equipped with a shotgun or rifle for shooting thru the ports. Most of the companies like yours here in south Florida have shotguns available. The jumpers sometimes unholster the sidearm and carry it in one hand while doing some of the pickups. The chopper pickup is becoming more and more common, too.

Where in Oregon are you? I have often thought of moving to the area of Bend or maybe Rogue River. But I worry about the Cali granola crunchers and the lax dope laws....

 

[srfl]

Hopefully that dispatcher will now only take calls from the Wendy's drive thru and that the bank (or someone) took the guy's photo or video footage for later ID.

I'm glad to hear there were no shots exchanged.

 

[P95Carry]

Seems the guy was akin to being a nutjob - but that sure would freak out anyone in your position. That is one LONG time to be stared at!!!

As for despatch - well - perhaps a size 12 to the butt could help instill a more serious attitude!! Seems very desultory behavior.

 

[Captain Crunch]

Q-ball,

Good job handling a dicey situation.

Surely your conversation with 911 is on tape. A formal written complaint to the dispatcher's supervisor is in order here. She was wayout of line.

Stay safe.

 

[RobL]

Dial 911 & DIE The tinted windows are a great idea.
So is a shotgun. Having an emergancy response system that works would be great too. I wonder what the response would have been If this guy was acting that way with that bag outside a school yard?
"What, he's just staring at those little girls?"
Personally, I wouldn't trust this gal at Wendy's.

Rob

 

[Q-ball]

At what point are you authorized to use deadly force when inside the truck?

Do they have to put a round into the glass before you can fire through the portals?

I can use deadly force when I feel my life or a third party's life is in danger. They don't have to put a round in the truck, I don't have to wait for them to shoot first.

 

[Q-ball]

Sounds like a hairy situation, alright. Aren't your truck windows heavily tinted? That would make more sense, you don't like to let potential BG's know your relative locations inside the vehicle, I would think. You might suggest this to the company for a truck upgrade.

:haha: LOL......................oh, you're serious. Our company has a hard enough time keeping our trucks running right. Your suggestion is a good one, but I already know that by the time my request for tinted windows comes through I'll be long gone.

All in all, I think you did exactly the right thing. I'm surprised though, that the truck isn't equipped with a shotgun or rifle for shooting thru the ports. Most of the companies like yours here in south Florida have shotguns available. The jumpers sometimes unholster the sidearm and carry it in one hand while doing some of the pickups. The chopper pickup is becoming more and more common, too.

I probably should have grabbed the Remington 870, but I reacted too fast and thought my jumper was coming out sooner. My Glock is quicker that the gauge. Next time will be different if I have the time...
Also, we can't pull our weapon out of the holster (when outside the truck) unless deadly force is necessary. IE-Brandishing. The guards who work for our corperation in Cali can unholster and walk around with their weapon in hand. In Oregon, no.
BTW, What's a chopper pickup? Do you mean helicopter? We have way too much coin for a chopper to haul.

Where in Oregon are you? I have often thought of moving to the area of Bend or maybe Rogue River. But I worry about the Cali granola crunchers and the lax dope laws....

PM on the way.

 

[HotGuns]

Here's my take on it...

It appears that you did your job well. You were vigilant and you were paying attention to any potential threats. Thats a good thing.:wave:

You called the dispatcher and told her that a "suspicious"person was watching you.

The dispatcher may have needed more information. Was he a threat?
Was he endangering you in any way? How? Did he make any threatening gestures? Did you see a weapon of any sort?

Understand that if you call a dispatcher and notify her that someone is staring at you, that the sense of urgency is simply not there. No laws have been broken. He was not asked to leave by the property owners. It sounds like he was a homeless guy that probably had all of his belongings in a duffel bag. Perhaps he was on a trip, and had to walk. He may have been on drugs, thus his fasicnation with watching.
It may be that he had never seen an amoured car.

Pulling your peice out seems a little premature to me. While I understand that you dont need to get shot at before presenting your piece, you were not under assault, and it wasnt even implied.

Now...lets put the shoe on the other foot.

Suppose that "duffel boy" saw you clear leather and he called the cops. Cop shows up and wants to know why you felt it that it was prudent to have your gun in your hand. You tell him that the guy was staring at you...

Its not against the law to "stare" at someone.
Its not even against the law to be crazy or stupid.
It is against the law to brandish a weapon.

Lets say the some young punk of a cop decided that the only law that was broken was the one that you broke by clearing leather. Even if you did in while still in the truck and duffle boy saw it, he could say that he felt threatened by it. So you get a ticket and you go before the judge. Are you going to be able to articulate that your life was in danger ? :blink:

Now lets say that the company that you work for took the fact that you got a ticket as proof of you breaking the law. (with many companys you are guilty until proven innocent)and they fire you. Two yeas later the trial to reinstate your job from the lawsuit that you filed takes place. Are you going to be able to articlute to a jury that your actions weer justified ?

I'm not saying that you were wrong or right in your performance. Im just adding more to the thought process here...and trust me on this, into todays legal environment, what seems to be right at the time or what appears to be common sense means little to a jury,especially if a slick talking lawyer with the gift of gab is working for the other side.:gah:

 

[BlueLion]

Yeah, I worked for Loomis briefly as a guard when I got out of the service. I had an old guy tell me that had worked for loomis for years, that it was best to just leave that pistol holstered and give up the money because Loomis will not back you. Apparently they had a guy get hung out to dry when they refused to back him when he was attacked.

What made me stop working for them was when a guy came into my space threatened to rob my delivery guy. I would not have second guessed on popping him with that .38 I had. Secondly, one day we were followed the entire route by a truck marking our routes and we had to call in a supervisor to tail us just in case. Well that was my story on the Loomis, I hope you be safe and find something else if you don't like it.

 

[Q-ball]

Thanks for the reply HotGuns, let me inform you on how things work in a Armored company....

The dispatcher may have needed more information. Was he a threat?
Was he endangering you in any way? How? Did he make any threatening gestures? Did you see a weapon of any sort?

I gave her the needed info and I told her that I work for an Armored company. He was not making threatening gestures to me and I saw no weapon. From just a glance, he was not endangering me.

Understand that if you call a dispatcher and notify her that someone is staring at you, that the sense of urgency is simply not there.

It damn well better be urgent, I told her who I work for. I shouldn't have to spell it out that we carry LOTS of money. I am not an average citizen, but a walking target with a high prize.

It sounds like he was a homeless guy that probably had all of his belongings in a duffel bag. Perhaps he was on a trip, and had to walk. He may have been on drugs, thus his fasicnation with watching.
It may be that he had never seen an amoured car.

He might have been homeless. He was on a 'trip' alright, but not a vacation. Drugs, maybe. And people that haven't seen an armored truck before look around the truck with a more quizzical look on their face, not stare at the driver for 5+ full minutes. He did not have that quizzical look.

Pulling your peice out seems a little premature to me. While I understand that you dont need to get shot at before presenting your piece, you were not under assault, and it wasnt even implied.

No, it wasn't premature. You implied that I wasn't under assault and yet you understand that I don't need to get shot at before presenting. Your bolded statement contradicts itself IMO. I was prepared. Prepared in case that guy starts cutting or gunning my partner, who I thought was coming right out at that moment. Besides, my weapon was out of sight, I wasn't sticking it through the gunport or pointing it at him through the glass.

Suppose that "duffel boy" saw you clear leather and he called the cops. Cop shows up and wants to know why you felt it that it was prudent to have your gun in your hand. You tell him that the guy was staring at you...

So what if he saw me? I can care less what he thinks. Besides, he back was turned when I did that. When the cops show up, yeah right, I will explain the situation. If they don't like it, they can pound sand. I'm not attacking you HotGuns but people don't know what it's like to carry around millions of dollars and that you're a walking bank. I don't care it I hurt someone's feelings because I feel threatened.

Now lets say that the company that you work for took the fact that you got a ticket as proof of you breaking the law. (with many companys you are guilty until proven innocent)and they fire you. Two yeas later the trial to reinstate your job from the lawsuit that you filed takes place. Are you going to be able to articlute to a jury that your actions weer justified ?

That's the last thing on my mind. My partner's safety is paramount to my job security. I couldn't live with myself thinking that my partner died because I was more worried about the legal issues and job security. I can get another job

I'm not saying that you were wrong or right in your performance. Im just adding more to the thought process here...and trust me on this, into todays legal environment, what seems to be right at the time or what appears to be common sense means little to a jury,especially if a slick talking lawyer with the gift of gab is working for the other side.

I appreciate your concerns and comments.
Lawyer-:buttkick:-Me

 

[Kid1911]

While he's inside he radios me and tells me to be on the lookout for a guy in bib overalls, green shirt and with a large Army style duffle bag on his shoulder. Apparently the skel was giving the tellers in the bank the heebeegeebees and giving my jumper the evil eye (and then some). My jumper tells me to be ready, he is coming out soon and doesn't want to be surprised by duffle boy.
Duffle boy, at this point, is outside on the sidewalk and looking at a sign on the window. His back is towards the truck. He looks really shady, so I unholster my weapon and position myself at the gunport closest to him (which is in front of the bank on my passenger side). Later, I realize that he really wasn't reading the sign on the window. He was watching me in the reflection of the glass because......He immediately turns around and starts staring at me. He knew I pulled my weapon and scooted closer. He will stand and stare for the next 5-7 minutes. I am not exaggerating, that is a long time. There is something wrong with this guy. He doesn't move during that time, just stares at me while I stare back.
I radio my jumper and give him a sit-rep. He tells me to get the city police on the phone and get one dispatched to our location. At this point the bank tellers are REALLY freaked out, according to my jumper. I call 911, in full view of duffle boy (no reaction) and explain to her who I am, where I'm at, what I do (armored car), and what is happening. So what does the operator do?

As a 9-1-1 Dispatcher here is my point of view. There are a number of red flags here that the dispatcher should have picked up on if all of the information above was related to her. Also some other questions should have been asked to include any info on what transpired in the bank involving this subject (did he make a transaction of any kind or was he just checking the place out). However these questions would be asked after the PD has been dispatched and they are on there way. Also the dispatcher should have stayed on the line to get any and all other info pertaining to the subject so the responding officers can be updated before they arrive.
Sounds like this dispatcher needs some more training and supervision.

Remember one bad dispatcher does not make all of us bad dispatchers.

 

[oregonshooter]

Kid1911,

Thanks for your point of view as a dispatcher! I don't know how the pay is in PA for dispatchers but it's not high enough here. You guys deserve at least $35.00 hr IMO that's compared to the $25.00 hr the COPS make here.

I think if the pay was right there would be a lot let turnover and everyone would be happy.

 

[Kid1911]

Thanks, it would be nice if we were payed more but the pay here isn't to bad and some of the benifits we get aren't bad either.

I have been a dispatcher for 12 years now and even work part time at another center to help fill in from time to time.