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Discussion Starter #1
I am thinking about returning to .40 S&W after a one year hiatus. I carried, on and off-duty, GLOCKs G23/G27 combo for 7 years, G22/G27 combo for 18 years prior to that. And a Shield .40 off-duty too.

After fighting unreliability issues with various .40 caliber GLOCKs with WML's for several months, and intensely researching 9mm ballistics for over a year I got the Sheriff to approve personally purchased GLOCK 9mm and .45 ACP for those deputies that wished to either just carry those calibers, or if they wanted to utilize a WML on their handgun. The WML situation got so bad we decided to ban them from the .40 GLOCKs.

Our issue weapon is the G22 for uniform and G23 for plain clothed. When we upgrade we will be issuing G17/G19's, but .40 will still be authorized along with .45 ACP GLOCKs if they are personally purchased. The GLOCK 9mm's and .45s have been flawless with WML's.

I personally decided to switch to a G19/G26 9mm combo for duty. And a G30S. I shoot them well, but I shoot my G23/G27 well too. Admittedly, I do shoot the 9mm's faster, but, then again, I shoot my .40's pretty dang fast too.

Here is my dilemma. I am seriously considering returning to .40 S&W. All the data I have indicates that 9mm is probably better for duty. Better capacity, easier to shoot, easier on guns, supposedly no practical difference in terminal performance and our GLOCK 9mm's run perfectly with WML's.

BUT, I still feel like my old .40's just had better performance. And I know they do, but my data and logic tells me it's not enough to make a practical difference on the street. But I just feel like it is a significant difference.

Ever seen a deer or hog shot with a .40 and a 9mm. It's a significant difference to them, so why not humans ??

Also, I am an avid outdoorsman and I much prefer a .40 in the wilds. I have used the .40 outdoors with very good success on deer, gators, wild dogs, snakes …. . I have not used the 9mm in the outdoors but I've seen videos and the performance was found wanting.

I am tired of switching out guns when I head into the swamps, and honestly, I oftentimes just find myself there with whatever I happen to be carrying.

I thought about just going straight .45 but even my G30S is bigger and heavier than my G27, it's about the size and weight of my G23, but the G23 beats it in capacity (13/15/17 for the .40).

I reckon I just miss the warm fuzzy feeling my .40's gave me. I would still have to keep my G19 in my kit for missions that require WML's. But honestly, I rarely use WML's, except on my HD gun and my hotel gun when I travel. So, talk me into or out of switching back to my .40's !
 

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I don't think you are a dinosaur at all. I carry a 40. From what @Bad Bob mentions, the Border Patrol carries 40. Keep in mind, i don't carry a 40 on duty, as I'm not law enforcement. The difference in capacity is 2 rounds, in Smith&Wesson. I don't know anything about Glocks. But, here's my thinking.

You have identified the issue as being 40 s&w Glocks. The issue does not follow to 9mm or 45 acp Glocks. I don't want to try to talk you into a different manufacturer, but, I have to ask, since your department uses 40, and it sounds like you have identified the issue, have they looked at a different manufacturer, to alleviate the issue, instead of moving to a caliber that has you questioning its performance?
 

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I wouldn't touch that argument with a ten foot pole, Bigsteve113. That warm fuzzy feeling you speak of is a tangible asset in one's defensive setup. Confidence in one's equipment is as important, just not as much as actual performance. (in my humble opinion) As I aged, I had to switch to 9mm, leaving my .45 behind, and it really worked on my head. After a couple of years, I have come to accept it and recognize the logic of it as opposed to the mystic of it, and I am again quite confident and comfortable in my carry. That being said . . . . I still wish it was a .45. :smile: Nay, sir, you are not a dinosaur, just a normal man.
 

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I am considering upgrading my EDC to a double stack auto. The thought I have been having about .40 is about all these states going to 10 round mag limits. I figure if at some point, I am only going to be able to have a 10 round mag, it might as well be a bigger caliber. There are some nice compact 10 round .40's out there.
 

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Id rather have extra capacity and lower recoil over projectiles with an extra 0.045" in diameter. If a 40cal makes you warm and fuzzy inside, go for it. With either cartridge, a good hit will get the job done. With a bad hit, neither will suffice. I couldnt imagine a scenario where 9mm vs 40cal would determine the outcome in a defensive shooting.
 

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I like 40 a lot. Almost bought a gen 3 Glock 23 the other day. Cause when people panic buy, the .40 is usually still on the shelves and I like the caliber. 165gr bullets moving at 1000fps or better make me feel good inside. Nothing wrong with being a dinosaur, unless a meteor hits the earth.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I don't think you are a dinosaur at all. I carry a 40. From what @Bad Bob mentions, the Border Patrol carries 40. Keep in mind, i don't carry a 40 on duty, as I'm not law enforcement. The difference in capacity is 2 rounds, in Smith&Wesson. I don't know anything about Glocks. But, here's my thinking.

You have identified the issue as being 40 s&w Glocks. The issue does not follow to 9mm or 45 acp Glocks. I don't want to try to talk you into a different manufacturer, but, I have to ask, since your department uses 40, and it sounds like you have identified the issue, have they looked at a different manufacturer, to alleviate the issue, instead of moving to a caliber that has you questioning its performance?
We are already well stocked on gear and support for GLOCKs. The Sheriff intends on moving to issuing 9mm GLOCKs in the future so he’s not interested in switching brands. S&W M&P,s, P320’s, P229’s ..... all work well with a WML,s and .40’s. I was lucky to convince him of the 9mm, .45 options for my WML guys/gals. But, going to a whole new platform was not accepted.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I am considering upgrading my EDC to a double stack auto. The thought I have been having about .40 is about all these states going to 10 round mag limits. I figure if at some point, I am only going to be able to have a 10 round mag, it might as well be a bigger caliber. There are some nice compact 10 round .40's out there.
See, that’s another one of my arguments for the .40, why do folks always want to go to .40 or .45 if capacity is limited ??? Especially if they are all so equal in performance ? Is capacity really the 9mm’s only real advantage over .40 or .45 ? Sometimes it all just gets too confusing to ponder.
 

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No, not Just a dinosaur!
 
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It is all rationalization and justification. If allowed, carry what makes you feel warm and fuzzy. I am a go big or stay home guy. I only trust the 9mm for bad breath fighting distances. I like the .40 S&W and the .45 ACP. I love the 10mm.
 

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No sir, I don’t believe you are.

There is a difference in the put down power between the 40 and the 9mm.

The difference in the 9 and the 40 may not matter when you have a partner or several officers pouring rounds in to someone, but out on your own, or in to the wild, I believe from my own observations on game between the two that the difference in performance is noteworthy.

And you know something else? As cheap as the Glocks in 40 are going for on the used market, I don’t see durability as being an issue either. As a matter of fact, I’d love to be able to shoot one enough to wear it out.

The FBI is correct; the 9mm is probably better suited to their purposes. But remember, they never said it was a “ better” cartridge, because anyone with half a brain could see that’s not true at all.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
No sir, I don’t believe you are.

There is a difference in the put down power between the 40 and the 9mm.

The difference in the 9 and the 40 may not matter when you have a partner or several officers pouring rounds in to someone, but out on your own, or in to the wild, I believe from my own observations on game between the two that the difference in performance is noteworthy.

And you know something else? As cheap as the Glocks in 40 are going for on the used market, I don’t see durability as being an issue either. As a matter of fact, I’d love to be able to shoot one enough to wear it out.

The FBI is correct; the 9mm is probably better suited to their purposes. But remember, they never said it was a “ better” cartridge, because anyone with half a brain could see that’s not true at all.
Good points ! And as far as durability, I’ve carried .40 GLOCKs for 26 years. Never wore one out yet. Including the same old G27 Gen 2.5 that I’ve carried on duty for over 22 of those years. I think I’m switching back. I don’t hate the 9mm, I just came to realize that I like my .40’s better. I’ll still keep my lil 9mm Hellcat in the mix. And my G19 for WML needs. But I think I’m gonna go back to .40 for the rest.
 

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You're not a dinosaur! Just carry your Glock 30 w/ your WML and call it good! The .45 acp should work well on anything crawling or walking the bayous and swamps! Good luck!
 
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My department issued 40's (G22 and 27) and I've personally seen them work on a few occasions. Running HST's they provided authoritative stops of the threat.

I'm an oddball though, I guess. I like to swap stuff around. Recently I bought a police trade in G22. I already had a 23 and a 27, but I like the Gen 4 22 and with a couple of Alpha Wolf barrels from Lone Wolf, I can change between 40, 9mm, or a hot rod .357 Sig in under 30 seconds. I do the same thing with the 23 and 27. I have been carrying the G22 (right now with 31 rounds of 124 gr 357 Sig HST's) and when the mood strikes I switch to a 43X or G48 or my old standby G30S.

As I said, I'm just strange like that. I never met a gun I didn't like. :image035:
 

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Discussion Starter #19
My department issued 40's (G22 and 27) and I've personally seen them work on a few occasions. Running HST's they provided authoritative stops of the threat.

I'm an oddball though, I guess. I like to swap stuff around. Recently I bought a police trade in G22. I already had a 23 and a 27, but I like the Gen 4 22 and with a couple of Alpha Wolf barrels from Lone Wolf, I can change between 40, 9mm, or a hot rod .357 Sig in under 30 seconds. I do the same thing with the 23 and 27. I have been carrying the G22 (right now with 31 rounds of 124 gr 357 Sig HST's) and when the mood strikes I switch to a 43X or G48 or my old standby G30S.

As I said, I'm just strange like that. I never met a gun I didn't like. :image035:
Just for kicks I’ve converted my G23 and G27 to 9mm with a Lone Wolf conversion barrel and mag swap only. I have never had a malfunction that way. In fact, converted to 9mm I can run a WML on that G23 with zero malfunctions. I do have a G19, but it’s nice to know I can turn that G23 to 9mm if I want to.

I love my G30S too. And will still carry it at times. But my G27 does carry easier. And still since I’m satisfied with the power of .40 S&W my Shield .40 takes care of a lot more of off duty needs. But honestly, I carried my G30S a lot when I switched to 9mm, because deep in the back of my mind I craved more power. When I carried .40’s it was mostly just .40’s.

I’ve also seen the .40 S&W (165 HST) in action in our OIS’s. They have been very impressive, even with some not so well placed shots.
 

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Confidence in one's equipment and training provides a very real advantage in performance. Plenty of ugly alternatives, plenty of things that can possibly go wrong, why would anyone add a measure of doubt in the selection of tools to get the job done?
 
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