Ammo ''trauma'' in semi's

1834 Views 17 Replies 10 Participants Last post by P95Carry, Dec 29, 2005

P95Carry

Discussion Starter · Dec 23, 2005

I doubt this matters most of the time but I have a feeling that some semi's are near ''brutal'' with the loads imposed on rounds. They collide with feedramp and then have to change direction to ''find'' the chamber - pretty abruptly!

This why the top round of a mag should maybe not be always the one to be rechambered after an empty and recharge sequence.

I wonder too tho - and this is a manufacturer thing - which brand of ammo is most resistant to any set back thru frequent chambering.

I am for most part a GD fan and have to say - I cannot notice too much ''distress' with rounds that have already been slammed into battery a time or two. That said - I rotate rounds when reloading so top one is ''fresh". I think this varies too - gun by gun.

Eventually of course the carry inventory gets shot up and fresh used.

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Bud White

· #2 · Dec 23, 2005

I dont really think one maker is better than the other at this..

But i do believe caliber makes a Difference

I know 40 is pretty prone to set back there not much case gripping the bullet to begin with

jarhead79

· #3 · Dec 23, 2005

I'm no ammo manufacturer, so don't take this as gospel. No matter what ammo you use, there always seems to be a "slick" feel to the rounds. Whether it be oil of some sort or a silicone treatment, They are definitely lubricated.

Rotation of ammo is a definite, I do this also. I'll empty the mag, and reload the rounds in a different order. The rounds do seem to get beat up pretty good. LEOs probably know this already. I worked security with the Military Police for a while a few years ago. The ammo they use is disgusting. It's been inserted and removed from magazine after magazine, probably twice a day, every day, and I don't know how often they replace the stuff. It is nasty looking and I definitely wouldn't want to depend on it for self defense. It looks like it's been in a bag of sharp rocks and rolled down a mountain.

P95Carry

Discussion Starter · #4 · Dec 23, 2005

jar - I have wondered if sometimes a cop's gun malfunctioning is due to exactly this - not rotating or replacing ammo enough and so beat up rounds lead to failures - feed usually.

Can't take chances with this stuff - saving life does not compare with saving some cash over a mag full of SD ammo.

jarhead79

· #5 · Dec 23, 2005

I'm interested if other LE departments have this same lax attitude toward ammo. USMC may not be a good represenation for the rest of the LE community.

QKShooter

· #6 · Dec 23, 2005

CCI SPEER seems quite resistant to bullet setback.
Years ago when I first made my decision to carry SPEER in my carry firearms...one of my personal tests (that I based my decision on) was to "chamber slam home" one lone round of .45acp about 75 times...and then do a comparative measurement of that cartridge against a NIB cartridge.
The bullet did not move.
Of course all of my carry pistols feed and chamber smoothly (without deforming on the frame ramp) so I'm guessing that individual results will vary depending on different pistols belonging to different shooters.

A bigger problem with constantly chambering the same round may be how some extractors & magazine feed lips really tear up cartridge brass.

P95Carry

Discussion Starter · #7 · Dec 23, 2005

jar - you may be right re USMC LE but - I cannot but help think that with many PD's perhaps only qualifying their guys twice a year - there is an awful lot of duty carry in between times!!!

QK - I share your Speer preference tho I have not done a torture test your way. I have tho checked rounds at times and found no perceptible change after a few rechamberings.

True too - re mag lips and extractors - these can harm rounds tho on balance, rifle semi's seem the worst culprits.

David III

· #8 · Dec 23, 2005

I've had some Magtech FMJ 45 ACP ammo setback after half a dozen chamberings -- but I shoot more Magtech than any other brand, so can't comment on others. I just rotate the rounds to avoid that.
However -- QKShooter hit on a much bigger problem to me with some guns. The rim of the case gets really torn to pieces. I had a Springfield 1911 where the ammo came out looking perfect, and my 5" Colt does fine, but my little Defender just chews up the brass badly. Regardless of ammo brand, when I remove a chambered round in the Defender when unloading, that round goes to my "shoot" pile. It's not a big issue with me, since the little gun is virtually always loaded - and I suspect I could work on the extractor a bit to lessen the problem, but the gun feeds so well I'm afraid of messing it up.
With 9mm, neither Glocks I've had or my Hi-Power ever set bullets back through a whole lot of brands of ammo.

HotGuns

· #9 · Dec 23, 2005

I pay attention to the condition of ammo when putting one in the pipe. Lots of folks dont. I always include a few minutes of discussion of it when Im teaching a CCW class.

When I load up to play Deputy, I always take a second or two to look at the first round. When they even hint of being chewed up, I'll place the round in a can on my dresser...to shoot at the next range session. The dept. issued ammo is too cheap to be second quessing whether it'll work or not.

Bud White

· #10 · Dec 24, 2005

I try to compare my Ammo every time it gets loaded After 2 or 3 relaodings i compare the who mags to each other

Anubis

· #11 · Dec 26, 2005 (Edited)

P95Carry said:
This why the top round of a mag should maybe not be always the one to be rechambered after an empty and recharge sequence.

I rotate rounds when reloading so top one is ''fresh".

I have read many internet opinions about setback. No idea if it's a real problem. Just for luck, I never chamber a round more than twice, and usually only once.

jarhead79

· #12 · Dec 26, 2005

P95Carry said:
jar - you may be right re USMC LE but - I cannot but help think that with many PD's perhaps only qualifying their guys twice a year - there is an awful lot of duty carry in between times!!!

If the LEOs keep their service pistols on their person instead of turning them into an armory, like the USMC, they shouldn't have too much of a problem, because they could probably use their own choice of ammo and cycle it as necessary.

If they turn their service pistols in daily, they'd likely have to unload the mags and such. This is what I've witnessed and why it's so mind-boggling.

We need our LEOs to answer our questions.

HotGuns

· #13 · Dec 26, 2005

If they turn their service pistols in daily, they'd likely have to unload the mags and such. This is what I've witnessed and why it's so mind-boggling.

I dont know of anyone around here that "turns" in pistols at the end of the shft.

The wear and tear on the ammo comes from loading and unloading. For instance, if a bring someone to the country jail, I'll have to put my gun in a lockbox. Since I dont trust the mickey mouse lock mechanisms I usually unload it and put the mag in my pocket.Depending on the phase of the moon that day, I may do that a half dozen times.

After shift when I get home, the first thing I'll do is unload and place in my dresser. After doing this quite a bit, the ammo starts to get nicked up and scratched. I'll always check the first round that goes into the chamber. If i can snag a fingernail anywhere on it, it goes into the can that I keep just for ugly ammo to be shot up at the next range session.

The mags usaully dont get unloaded to much. I shoot enough that its never been an issue. Perhaps if someone didnt shoot till the next qualification 6 months to a year later, it might be a problem, but Ive never heard of it being so.

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Kompact9

· #14 · Dec 28, 2005

I carry either Black Hills 124 gr. +P or Winchester 147 gr. SXT. Both seem to have held up well in the K9. However, fellow forum members, we use a mechanical device for protection and that entails a fair amount of TLC (cleaning and inspection of EVERYTHING) on a regular basis. You know the old saying about if it's mechanical or electrical, it's not IF it will fail, just when. TLC seems to keep the "whens" further apart...

cmidkiff

· #15 · Dec 28, 2005

When I load my carry piece, it stays loaded until I'm at the range, then get's 'unloaded' the easy way. The only time I ever unload manually is when I'm about to clean the gun after a range trip. I remove the mag, and lock the slide, putting the loose round and the mag in the safe while cleaning the gun. When reloading, I jack a fresh round off of the fully loaded mag, pull the mag and insert the loose round at the top.

Once every 6 months or so, I unload my carry mags to disassemble and clean them during a normal post-range cleaning, so those 21 rounds might be loaded into a mag more than once, but it's rare, and would never be more than twice.

Do people really load/unload the chamber often enough to develop a problem like this? Most of the bullet crimp problems I'm aware of are in heavy caliber revolvers, where a bullet gets unseated during recoil. I can't even imagine LEO's unloading the chamber after every shift... I'm no LEO and sure as heck don't pretend to know LEO SOP, but I'd think it would be much safer to leave the thing alone, rather than loading and unloading every shift!

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Bud White

· #16 · Dec 29, 2005

Sure ive unloaded/reloaded enough to see bullet setback in just one or 2 months.

i usually wont shoot my carry ammo any time i go to range which a lot of times would be once a week so there is a lot of reloading if im shooting my carry gun a lot

Scarface

· #17 · Dec 29, 2005

Hi Chris,

I try to shoot my carry ammo out each time I o to the range, so I usually only get one chambering from each round.
Like Jarhead, the Marines tauht me to be very careful about my weapon, mags and rounds. In a change from "the old days", I do not load my mags under capacity. In rifles and subguns, we always charged the mags with 2 less than capacity. Now, with small capacity carry weapons, I leave the mag full and one in the chamber.

Semper Fi, Jarhead, from the "Old Corps".

Be Well

Scarface

P95Carry

Discussion Starter · #18 · Dec 29, 2005

Buck - I try to shoot my carry ammo - sometimes! Cost is always the real kicker tho to do it too often.

I do try to do pretty much what some other folks mention - and pitch a ''suspect'' in a jug for later range disposal. I have in R9 in particular, checked the #1 round with calipers just to monitor OAL - seems so far that GD's are very robust - much same with rounds from SIG too actually.

My main cause of rechambering rounds is after an empty and dry-fire session, so if not careful one round could well received multiple (a lot of) chamberings.

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