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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've found a local fella who is selling an H&R Pardner SB2 10g. I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with them, good or bad. I won't be going to pick it up for a few more days so I figured I'd post this just in case they are a big no-no. The guy only wants $130 for it and is an hour away.

I've always wanted a 10g just for the sake of owning one and I figure this is about the most inexpensive way to acquire one. I'd use it for turkey hunting and that's about it, as I don't really hunt waterfowl. Comes with a couple boxes of slugs that I might load it with when a friend wants to shoot the "big ten".

Any and all advice is welcome, though I don't really want to hear about 3.5" 12g vs 10g if that's what you came to talk about.
 

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Good basic guns ..I like the H&R guns but it is a light gun and will kick nice on that round ..

For the money with ammo I would do it
 

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The H&R shotguns are very light weight and that contributes to the recoil. there are not many that enjoy shooting the 10 gauge. A good place to learn more about them would be Greybeards outdoors.

H&R Shotguns

I collect Handi rifles and shotgun combos But the 10 gauge frame is too wide to trade barrels with all the others. So I have mostly skipped them.
If you like recoil they are a cool and cheap way to get there! DR
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I will admit I am a bit of a recoil junkie. My current ground blind setup is an 835 loaded with 3.5" 12g #5 and an Ultra-Full choke. I shoot it just fine but its always fun to let a friend try it and watch the ground meet their rear end.
 
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A light single barrel 10 ga is my definition of abusive recoil! They are sturdy reliable shotguns. I've got a straight stock H&R .410 that I have had for many years and it is my go-to for rabbits and squirrels! If you enjoy the recoil go for it!
 

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I have two- one with rifle sights, one with a bead. They are anything but lightweight, with the barrels looking like they pulled them off a Bofors gun and the stocks have extra weights added.
 

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Hi Wizard7mm08;

I'm your man for H&R 10 gauge shotgun lore. I've had mine over 40 years now. Bought it new for $65 when $65 represented rather more money than it does now. I first went duck hunting in 1969 and by the mid-1970s was really into it. I was also into reading Elmer Keith. He wrote of his exploits with his Ithaca Magnum 10 gauge double-barrel hunting waterfowl on the Snake River in Idaho. Told tales of long-range exploits with his 10 gauge. I decided I needed one for pass shooting and had visions of hitting ducks at 100 yards with it.

First weekend I took it along, I burned off 4 boxes of Federal 3 1/2-inch 2 oz No. 2s shooting at ducks. Yeah, even out to probably 100 yards like a nitwit. Might have been within the gun's capabilities to hit way out there (with the right loads which I didn't discover until later), but I was not equal to figuring out lead at such distances. Requires way too much sky between the bead and the bird. I scratched down two ducks for those four boxes of shells. At $9.95 per box back then, this was an expensive lesson.

The gun proved to be more adept at taking foxes and coyotes I called in while I was still living at home and also out at our old family place on the lake. BB sized shot slay-erated the foxes and No. 4 buckshot was even better. The No. 4 buckshot load held 54 .24 caliber buckshot. I took the time to pattern the shotgun to 100 yards with this load and learned how much to hold over the target to center it in the buckshot pattern. I counted 12 strikes on a 5 gallon square fry vat oil can on a shot from 75 paces, it requiring a foot of hold-over to center the can. I later shot a coyote standing in a spotlight beam one night at near this distance in front of someone who said it couldn't be done and he was well-perforated.

Some years later, this still being before the lead shot ban, I became turned on to Winchester Western Super-X 2 1/4 ounce, copper-plated 6s for waterfowling at distance in our slough. Thiis load provided great patterns and much swat. I had grown up by then though and forever eschewed 100-yard duck shooting.

First turkey ever taken with the shotgun was with using the No. 4 buckshot. I deliberately held over him a bit so the bottom of the pattern swatted him in the head, neck, and a few in the top of the back. Later, the Super-X 6s were used and that's what is still used if turkey hunting with the 10 gauge.

Had a run-in with a vicious pit bull dog in our back yard back when our two boys were young, 2 and 4 1/2. No animal control out in the county where we lived at the time. The No. 4 buckshot gave perfect satisfaction when applied to the back of the pit bull's head and neck from about 15 yards. At that distance the shot load was mostly in two clumps, one clump hit the back of the head and one hit the back of the neck. Lest someone here on the Forum fusses about shooting dogs, this wasn't a difficult decision. Dog ... toddler sons ... dog lost that decision. Roaming stray dogs are someone else's irresponsibility and not mine.

Duck season before last, my brother-in-law invited me out to Terry County, Texas where he lives to do some duck hunting one morning in a prairie pot hole he'd discovered. He'd just purchased his own H&R 10 gauge single-shot from a local pawn/gun shop in Brownfield, Texas, just for "kicks" you see, because he'd long seen mine. He requested I bring it along so we could "hunt with 10 gauges together."

That morning, we set up a contrived blind and put out some decoys. The pot hole was much larger than I expected, being so long and skinny that it seemed more like a river, extending out of sight both north and south. We'd brought our true favorite shoguns for serious work, but had lugged the 10 gauges along to the shoreline and had them hidden among the rushes with us. The hunting was about done for the morning when I unlimbered my 10 gauge. I'd brought some older bismuth ammunition, No. 5 shot, being disdainful of steel shot and its sorry performance. These shells were several years old and had been afield in the past, maybe several times.

Anyway, a lone mallard drake was spied, coming up from the south, hugging our shoreline as he flew on unconcerned. This was gonna be easy. I thumb cocked the H&R and waited until he was committed. There would be no escape. I stood up, swung to the right (we were on the east side of the pot hole) and pressed the trigger ... to hear an ineffectual "click." The duck was still coming. I cocked the shotgun again and swung on him, pressing the trigger when he was about straight out in front of me. Again, the maddening "click." This was a hopeless dud shell. By then the duck had awoken to his potential peril and was peeling off to the west, clawing for both speed and altitude.

I eyed him balefully. He was yet within range of the 10 gauge with its wonderful long distance capabilities and good patterns ... if only the shell would fire. Deciding nothing ventured, nothing gained, I thumbed the gun's hammer once more and swung harder to the right in an attempt to lead the bird. Being a right-handed shooter, my swing placed me in a cramped awkward position because I had not changed my stance and I was heeling over far to the right and this time the swing was a hurry-up affair. Pressing the trigger with expectations of another most hopeless-sounding "click" I was instead met with ... ignition! The big shotgun gave its characteristic deep-throated bark, the pattern went "off toward Jones's" with a dreadful miss, the duck finally safe from my efforts.

I didn't really see much of what the duck's reaction to the shot was for I was instantly swatted hard, directly into a fight for my life, so to speak, well, at least a fight for my dignity and for avoiding a mud bath. We were right at water's edge and the ground was marshy and none to stable. In my efforts to shoot this duck I had stood up and my feet buried up to above my ankles in muck. The gun knocked me severely off balance and I was pitching and heaving in an attempt to remain standing all while being denied the use of my feet to take a recovery step or two backward. I was struggling mightily to not drop the shotgun, and not go pitching backward into the mud, with my feet firmly stuck.

I did finally win the battle and didn't splat into the mud. I think I actually wrenched my back in the attempt though. Worse and worse, my brother-in-law was howling mercilessly with laughter. As he was wiping tears of mirth from his eyes he began singing: Weebles wobble, but they don't fall down."












Here's a tale of turkey hunting I posted here on the Forum.

http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/hunting-forum/212517-red-river-spring-turkey-hunt.html
 

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I have two- one with rifle sights, one with a bead. They are anything but lightweight, with the barrels looking like they pulled them off a Bofors gun and the stocks have extra weights added.
True this, WebleyHunter. The barrel appears downright rounded with a fairly acute hump in it when sighting along the top. The barrel is 36 inches long. The gun weights something like 10 and a half pounds. The little brochure I received with mine lauded a one pound steel bar said to be in the stock to provide balance and soak up a measure of recoil. The stock's too short, the gun's very heavy and ungainly ... until one touches it off. Then it's not heavy enough.

Really it's not so bad when winter clothing is being worn. Firing off the heaviest available 10 gauge loads "for effect" in a summer T-shirt isn't quite as cozy as firing the gun in winter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Good stories BMC. Mine won't be as pretty. Its just a basic blued model with a black synthetic stock and the 24" barrel.

I intend to remove the stock and spray paint a camo pattern on it. The fella said it is threaded but he couldn't find any markings on the choke so I'll have to do a bit of research. I wouldn't think it'd be a full choke cause I can't imagine him throwing slugs out of a full choke and still having an intact gun. I've already looked into chokes for it (Comp-N-Choke makes a triple X full), as I like fairly tight patterns when I'm dropping big beards. I'll be picking it up Wednesday so I'll have to report back when I have it for myself.
 
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My H&R's not as pretty in real life as it appears in the photos.

Would love to hear more about your new 10 gauge, especially how it's choked. Would like to see photos of the gun, both before and after you customize it.

Slugs work in full choke 10 gauge shotguns. I've shot 'em, several brands and this 10 gauge here is full choke.

Have thought about choke tubes for it over the years, but never thought it was worth the money.

Was taking a shower and thought of one more thing to share about 10 gauge capabilities. The real "secret weapon" with the 10 gauge is small shot. That Winchester Western Super-X No. 6 load, all 2 1/4 ounces of it is deadly! Probably can't get it anymore, but other similar loads are marketed. I yet have a supply of the Winchester Western Super-X stuff.

I took the 10 gauge dove hunting a few times over my parents' stock tank. I grew up hunting dove over that tank. The gun's not much for crossing dove. It swings like a utility pole and won't be deviated once it starts swinging, bedeviling the gunner after the acrobatic dove. It's a wonder at distance. I would sit on the south end of the tank, on its dam. The dove would come in from the north to land on the shallow end. It was easy to swat them out of the air as they flitted down intending to land to the mud bank from 50 yards away using those No 6s. Only trouble was, the shells weren't cheap enough for dove hunting.

For a few years in the mid-1990s I shot on a skeet league with the bank where I was employed. Our team consisted of the president, a couple who were the majority shareholders, and me. One day after we were finished shooting for score, I thought to shoot a round of skeet with the 10 gauge and those No. 6 loads. I had practiced at home, clamping a spare shell in between the fingers of my left hand and feeling like I could possibly get in a second shot on the doubles. This was a bust in fact. I had to shoot doubles one at a time. I gave an uneven performance on the single round I shot. Don't recall the score. I was ok on No 1, 2, 6, and 7 on the straight-away shots. I had to wait on the approaching shots and let them go by if I stood any chance of hitting them, generally somewhere out by the markers. Station 4 wasn't so hot. Station 8 was a disappointment. I always felt like a "stud duck" shooting station 8 which is really a trick shot. It came easy to me with a lively open-choked 12 gauge. The muzzle of the 10 gauge seemed almost in the target's path and there was no way to haul all that weight after a fast approaching target. I couldn't get on it at all.

After this our team all tried the 10 gauge at trap, even the woman. No one could miss with the 10 gauge and those 2 1/4 ounce No. 6 loads. It was like cheating. We were standing on a sidewalk behind the 27 yard handicap and just hammering targets. It was easy to just allow the targets to fly out as far as they will and then shoot them at the end of their arc, just before they fell to the ground. Don't know how far that is but it's a good distance. Not really sporting at all, but did illustrate what could be done. A decent 10 gauge shotgun, properly choked could have some application for hunting.

I've passed up on any number of the Spanish double-barrel 10 gauge magnums I've run across in pawn shops over the years. They didn't seem much livelier than the H&R. That Ithaca Mag 10 seemed like a better bet, but I never sprung for one. Browning had their BPS 10 gauge which also would be grand.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
My H&R's not as pretty in real life as it appears in the photos.

Would love to hear more about your new 10 gauge, especially how it's choked. Would like to see photos of the gun, both before and after you customize it.

Slugs work in full choke 10 gauge shotguns. I've shot 'em, several brands and this 10 gauge here is full choke.
Interesting. I was under the impression that smoothbores shouldn't launch slugs through chokes tighter than imp cyl. I must admit I have little knowledge when it comes to slugs as we aren't limited to them where I'm at and because of that, not very many people shoot 'em.

I looked into the BPS and if I take to the 10g quite passionately, it might be in my future. But there is a significant amount of dollars between the H&R and a BPS, and I have yet to need a second shell when turkey hunting.
 

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I have a couple different brands of Foster type slugs in there in the gun room, gathered up from years ago. I think I've fired a Brenneke type slug, seems like it was a Federal product. Slugs are designed to compensate for choke differences.

I never had a purpose in mind for 10 gauge slug ammunition. It was acquired "just because" and fired "for effect." No effective way to achieve accuracy with that thick humped barrel and nothing more than a bead out front.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Update: Picked up the shotty this afternoon. Paid $130 and after assessing the ammo that came with it, in theory, I only paid $75 for the gun. Talk about one hell of a deal.

I'll try and get pics up tonight (don't hold your breath). The stock is actually wood, I thought it was synthetic, and looks like it was painted black from the factory. Now I'm not sure if I want to paint it or not.

Its drilled and tapped halfway down the barrel and I need to pick up plugs for that. The choke is definitely a full turkey choke, but as I said it has no markings on it. I measured it at .720" with my caliper. It's not overly heavy and I actually think my 12g BPS is heavier. This ought to be fun.
 
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Yea wizard7mm08!

We'll be awaiting photos.

I do recall that some of those H&R single-shot shotguns did come painted black for a while. Most wood stocks were birch underneath the finish or black paint, either one. I do recall that there was an H&R youth model called the Green Wing that came with a black stock about the same time as when I acquired the Model 176. Even later, black painted wood stocks appeared on other H&R single-shots on the gun racks at the discount houses.

I just went in there and measured the choke on my 10 gauge and it measured .720", same as yours.

These are suppose to be standard choke diameters for the 10 gauge.

True Bore .779

Cylinder Bore .779
Skeet I .774
Improved Cyl. .769
Skeet II .764
Modified .759
Improved Mod .754
Full Choke .744
Extra Full .739

I guess a turkey choke could be .720. That sounds more like strangled rather than choked! A 12 gauge is .729 bore.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Send us X-rays of your shoulder also
I can take a lickin'. In fact, I enjoy lickin's. :image035:

@bmcgilvray, .720" seemed awfully tight (I too looked into standard choke sizes) and as far as I knew, my caliper was accurate and zeroed properly. Glad to know I'm not crazy or forgot how to measure.
 

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Oh, meant to inquire:

Does your shotgun have a swaged choke or a cut choke? This Model 176 has a nice factory cut choke, the log taper of the restriction beginning about 8 inches back of the muzzle. H&R 10 gauge single shots that I've examined that were made later than mine have the cheapo swaged (or some call it "pinched) choke.

It's said that the swaged choke is less effective than a proper cut choke. It's suppose to deform more of the shot and cause more fliers out of the shot column. I don't know if that's so. I've shot other's various cheapo single-shot shotguns on occasion over the years and was too dumb to discern the difference. They all hit fine if I did my part.

There's a Winchester Model 37A 16 gauge single-shot shotgun on hand which has a swaged full choke. I bought it new for Mrs. noelekal back when she was my 16 year-old girlfriend. In fact, I bought it the same day as when I bought the H&R 10 gauge. What a big spender I was! I think her shogun cost five dollars less than the 10 gauge. Anyway, that 16 gauge is actually a tremendously fine shotgun ... for one shot. Never explored the pattern's characteristics, but it's deadly on both dove and duck. I have a notion that it shoots a little more open pattern than the full choke stated on the barrel.

So, a swaged choke might not be so bad. It'd be worth patterning at different ranges to find out how it performs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Oh, meant to inquire:

Does your shotgun have a swaged choke or a cut choke? This Model 176 has a nice factory cut choke, the log taper of the restriction beginning about 8 inches back of the muzzle. H&R 10 gauge single shots that I've examined that were made later than mine have the cheapo swaged (or some call it "pinched) choke.

It's said that the swaged choke is less effective than a proper cut choke. It's suppose to deform more of the shot and cause more fliers out of the shot column. I don't know if that's so. I've shot other's various cheapo single-shot shotguns on occasion over the years and was too dumb to discern the difference. They all hit fine if I did my part.

There's a Winchester Model 37A 16 gauge single-shot shotgun on hand which has a swaged full choke. I bought it new for Mrs. noelekal back when she was my 16 year-old girlfriend. In fact, I bought it the same day as when I bought the H&R 10 gauge. What a big spender I was! I think her shogun cost five dollars less than the 10 gauge. Anyway, that 16 gauge is actually a tremendously fine shotgun ... for one shot. Never explored the pattern's characteristics, but it's deadly on both dove and duck. I have a notion that it shoots a little more open pattern than the full choke stated on the barrel.

So, a swaged choke might not be so bad. It'd be worth patterning at different ranges to find out how it performs.
I sure learn something new everyday. Its a threaded choke tube, so I'm not sure what answer that would leave you with.
 
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