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Discussion Starter #1
So my buddy says I should get KNS Antirotation pins for my Stag AR (model 2).

I have the OEM trigger, and thinking about a Spikes battle trigger as an upgrade....?

My OEM is fine for smokin' Wiley Coyote....:22a:

What are your thoughts about these upgrades?

Thanks!
 

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The anti rotation pins are a solution looking for a problem. I never could see a reason for them. If your lower is of such poor quality that holes are going to oval on you then you will have much worse problems to deal with.

Can't speak to the trigger. I just run GI/standard FCG(G&R Tactical in one and PSA in the others) in my ARs. But I'm not varminting at 500 yds either
 

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One of those things internet mall ninjas tell you that you need but considering it hasn't been a problem for the half-century the military has been using the M16 I don't think it'll be a problem for your varmint gun. If it is, your receiver and/or pins are faulty and should be replaced.
 

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I run the 1/4 28 set screw trick on my PSA trigger. I also had to polish the heck out of the lock up surfaces to make it smooth. Match trigger for $.50. pull is around 4.5 lbs. with almost no travel.
 

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The anti rotation pins are a solution looking for a problem. I never could see a reason for them. If your lower is of such poor quality that holes are going to oval on you then you will have much worse problems to deal with.

Can't speak to the trigger. I just run GI/standard FCG(G&R Tactical in one and PSA in the others) in my ARs. But I'm not varminting at 500 yds either
Amen fellow Ohioan!

Unless full auto, I see no point. It's an added expense and more crap on the gun.

I run the 1/4 28 set screw trick on my PSA trigger. I also had to polish the heck out of the lock up surfaces to make it smooth. Match trigger for $.50. pull is around 4.5 lbs. with almost no travel.
Shooting will also polish the trigger...work out the surfaces until smooth :wink:
 

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I know real world guys who swear by them. When I asked them why they said this:

1. They keep the holes from wallowing out.

2. They maintain the exact geometry from "center to center" on the pins which helps the trigger pull and minimizes wear on sear/hammer points.

3. They keep the pins from walking.

Bottom Line: On work guns (especially full auto) they get shot A LOT and cleaned A LOT. It's cheap insurance. :image035:
 

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I know real world guys who swear by them. When I asked them why they said this:

1. They keep the holes from wallowing out.

2. They maintain the exact geometry from "center to center" on the pins which helps the trigger pull and minimizes wear on sear/hammer points.

3. They keep the pins from walking.

Bottom Line: On work guns (especially full auto) they get shot A LOT and cleaned A LOT. It's cheap insurance. :image035:
"Real World Guys"? What does that mean / who? I've worked on guns that got shot a lot and cleaned a lot and never saw this problem...but I'm always willing to listen.
 

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SEAL Team guys...

When they speak I listen. :yup:

From an engineering standpoint, it makes total sense. And with the Geissele trigger it's a perfect match.
 

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I would guess they shoot full auto a lot more than we do? I can definitely understand the aforementioned issues during prolonged use/full auto fire.
 

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SEAL Team guys...

When they speak I listen. :yup:

From an engineering standpoint, it makes total sense. And with the Geissele trigger it's a perfect match.
With all due respect to those fine guys, I still say not needed...based on my own experience of course.
 

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Change for the sake of change and spending money
 

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In my opinion, for most people the only purpose they serve is to show off. It's an outward indication that the gun isn't stock. You could have an ugly, gritty stock trigger, but it wouldn't look like it from the outside.
 

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In my opinion, for most people the only purpose they serve is to show off. It's an outward indication that the gun isn't stock. You could have an ugly, gritty stock trigger, but it wouldn't look like it from the outside.
Maybe they're just on there for looks? Otherwise it might be a box stock M4 with a gritty trigger. :dunno:

 

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In my opinion, for most people the only purpose they serve is to show off. It's an outward indication that the gun isn't stock. You could have an ugly, gritty stock trigger, but it wouldn't look like it from the outside.
Most guys with KNS pins have guns that are far from stock
 

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Bill Geissele has mentioned he preferred them not being used with his triggers. until recently, you needed to use the pins that came with the Geissele triggers.

As for SEALs, I'll listen all day long when they talk about shooting, team tactics and mindset. What I've found is fighting skill set does not equal firearms knowledge, and it certainly doesn't make one a gun guy. I hope I'm explaining myself right. Cops and soldiers, contrary to what many believe, aren't always the go to guys for firearms advice. But, someone that is a gun guy, whether a desk jockey of face shooter, is who I'll listen to when it comes to knowledge. I won't be asking the desk jockey how to clear a T intersection inside a small structure though....

On my LMT lower, my pins would walk out a bit (all rotate which is fine). I replaced the fire control group and that took care of the hammer pin, but the trigger pin still walked. So, I installed the original KNS pins. It fixed the issue but I eventually traded off the lower for an upper I wanted.

DRM, I'm willing to bet they are not needed on that rifle and they were just installed for the hell of it. That's fine too, just not my cup of tea. Slick rifle either way. For the record, last year an active duty SEAL showed up to a class with a complete DPMS. There's a thread on Lightfighter that talks about it.
 
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