[Tangle]

Let me recap for the sake of open disclosure. I have run 750 rounds through my AR with just the initial lubing (with a q-tip) I showed in the first video. Of the 750 rounds I had three failures due to improper ammo that I shot without thinking about it not being tuned to the gun. It was an ammo failure, not a lube failure.

Since the last light load failure, without cleaning or lubing, I put 330 M193 rounds through it to bring the total number of rounds through the gun to 750. I could kick myself for introducing the marginal ammo into the test. But be that as it may, with the ammo the gun is tuned for, it was flawless - 747 rounds but with the "benefit" of the nastiness of the three rounds that failed.

Oh, the gun still hasn't been cleaned, but I am seeing some signs that the carrier speed is slowing some. But after 750 rounds with no additional cleaning or lubing, one would expect it to eventually fail.

Something I'm struggling with is how did it do this? There are only two possibilities: either FP-10 is a remarkable lube, or an AR will run for hundreds of rounds even dry and dirty. Common knowledge says an AR won't run dry. If that's true, then there's only one other answer - FP-10 is good stuff.

More later - I just got back from the range and it's time to eat!

This is pretty much a wrap-up video bringing the round count to the 750 mark:

 

[trevorus]

Anderson touts their coating process for running without lube. They ran it after washing with soap and water to remove all oil. If I could afford it, I'd love to do a torture test on a full build of their stuff.

Maybe your test just tells us that it only takes a little lube to keep an AR running.

 

[G-man*]

30 days in Artic conditions, absolutely 0 lubrication and shooting hundreds of blanks with a BFA (blank firing adapter) that completely blocks the barrel because it is screwed in to the muzzle.
The rifles functioned firing 100's of blanks, cycling even 3 round burst fire at the bad guys (British Royal Marines) during Operation Alpine Warrior.
Carbon is a lubricant.

And this was a happy day

 

[PAcanis]

Repopulating thread, isn't it?
It's like buying four books to read one story.
It's so much easier on searches to keep things together... if anyone were to want to.

 

[Tangle]

Repopulating thread, isn't it?
It's like buying four books to read one story.
It's so much easier on searches to keep things together... if anyone were to want to.

People lose interest in long threads. It would be hard to realize there had been an update as opposed to another reply. It would be difficult to find and keep up with updates mixed in with replies.

By using multiple threads with similar titles, one can use the search tool and find all parts easily.

If all the parts were intermixed with replies in one thread it could easily become confusing trying to figure out which part a post was referring to.

With separate threads for each part, it consolidates all the replies that pertain to a particular part.

 

[Nakyak]

Good lord, Is this find fault with anything Tangle does Saturday? The guy can't do a specified test without his lube choice, amount, and forum thread posting habits being questioned. *roll eyes*

 

[PAcanis]

People lose interest in long threads. It would be hard to realize there had been an update as opposed to another reply. It would be difficult to find and keep up with updates mixed in with replies.

By using multiple threads with similar titles, one can use the search tool and find all parts easily.

If all the parts were intermixed with replies in one thread it could easily become confusing trying to figure out which part a post was referring to.

With separate threads for each part, it consolidates all the replies that pertain to a particular part.

Good point with the long threads.
It's a subjective thing, obviously. I like all my information in one spot.

 

[Sticks]

AND?...........

Did it seize up at 780? Gun blew up?

C'mon Tangle, you had 5 threads on this subject in 1 week. What is the outcome?

 

[Bad Bob]

30 days in Artic conditions, absolutely 0 lubrication and shooting hundreds of blanks with a BFA (blank firing adapter) that completely blocks the barrel because it is screwed in to the muzzle.
The rifles functioned firing 100's of blanks, cycling even 3 round burst fire at the bad guys (British Royal Marines) during Operation Alpine Warrior.
Carbon is a lubricant.
View attachment 174698
And this was a happy day

I hated cleaning after shooting blanks.....

 

[Bad Bob]

Let me recap for the sake of open disclosure. I have run 750 rounds through my AR with just the initial lubing (with a q-tip) I showed in the first video. Of the 750 rounds I had three failures due to improper ammo that I shot without thinking about it not being tuned to the gun. It was an ammo failure, not a lube failure.

Since the last light load failure, without cleaning or lubing, I put 330 M193 rounds through it to bring the total number of rounds through the gun to 750. I could kick myself for introducing the marginal ammo into the test. But be that as it may, with the ammo the gun is tuned for, it was flawless - 747 rounds but with the "benefit" of the nastiness of the three rounds that failed.

Oh, the gun still hasn't been cleaned, but I am seeing some signs that the carrier speed is slowing some. But after 750 rounds with no additional cleaning or lubing, one would expect it to eventually fail.

Something I'm struggling with is how did it do this? There are only two possibilities: either FP-10 is a remarkable lube, or an AR will run for hundreds of rounds even dry and dirty. Common knowledge says an AR won't run dry. If that's true, then there's only one other answer - FP-10 is good stuff.

More later - I just got back from the range and it's time to eat!

This is pretty much a wrap-up video bringing the round count to the 750 mark:

What was your sustained rate of fire? Did you get the gun HOT or just dirty. The lack of lube will manifest itself as the parts get REALLY hot and dry. I have run M-16 full auto so much that the barrel is glowing red hot during training and they still worked, and this was field conditions using LSA. If the only contaminants introduced are from firing with a can I can envision this being a long test. Of course the other problem with lack of lube is accelerated wear, which you may or may not be able to see. It would be interesting to see before and after internal measurements of lube VS lube deprivation.

 

[bmcgilvray]

30 days in Artic conditions, absolutely 0 lubrication and shooting hundreds of blanks with a BFA (blank firing adapter) that completely blocks the barrel because it is screwed in to the muzzle.
The rifles functioned firing 100's of blanks, cycling even 3 round burst fire at the bad guys (British Royal Marines) during Operation Alpine Warrior.
Carbon is a lubricant.
View attachment 174698
And this was a happy day

Don't mean to drag this off-topic, but noticed this post. I have to wonder, Gman, if you ever squared up against a friend of mine who lives in West Yorkshire. He did training in Norway on a regular basis when he was in the Royal Marines from 1975 to 1982. He was tough, still is tough in ways that most can only dream about. Yet, you'd never know it just to have a casual conversation with him.

To get this back on-topic, Tangle, your video production skills are great. The 4-way split at the beginning of the video clip is cool! Always fun to watch your efforts.

 

[G-man*]

Don't mean to drag this off-topic, but noticed this post. I have to wonder, Gman, if you ever squared up against a friend of mine who lives in West Yorkshire. He did training in Norway on a regular basis when he was in the Royal Marines from 1975 to 1982. He was tough, still is tough in ways that most can only dream about. Yet, you'd never know it just to have a casual conversation with him.

To get this back on-topic, Tangle, your video production skills are great. The 4-way split at the beginning of the video clip is cool! Always fun to watch your efforts.

I doubt it Bryan. My time was 86-93, and only did the Cold Weather package twice in that period.

We did throw down a lot of suds with them and the Norwegian troops at the local taverns.
They were all tough. Can't be a cupcake and do what we did to our bodies back then.

 

[Tangle]

Hey guys, didn't mean to be so slow replying, but I have been one sick little feller.

I went to Cracker Barrel Sunday for an early breakfast (I give the wife a break on Sunday mornings). As I ate, I noticed I was getting light headed, so I decided to pay and head for the car before things got worse. I got to the cashier and passed out. Some EMTs were coming in for breakfast and they were around me when I woke up. I asked them to help me up, they did and the next time I woke up they said I had passed out 3 times and an ambulance was on the way.

They loaded me up ran a multilead EKG, checked all the vitals including blood sugar - nothin'. I told them I was feeling better and walked out of the ambulance and waited for my wife to come and pick me up. I seemed to be pretty much back to normal. It turned out that I had taken some meds for a virus on an empty stomach and even though CB was only two miles away, the meds got in my bloodstream before the food could catch up and it bottomed out my blood pressure. But then Monday...

Came home wiped out. Went to my doctor the next day. He concluded this was the culmination of an ongoing infection that must have been working for a while. That was Tuesday - Today is the first time I've felt like doing anything. Thankfully, I am recovering now.

Bad Bod the test was intentionally kept at slow fire because that's how I shoot. I don't do mag dumps etc. and have no reason to. But I do a lot of slow fire type shooting as would be typical in hunting and sport shooting. I am concerned about damage - haven't looked at it yet because of well, what I described above. I did not address rapid, high volume rates of fire because it has little application to me.

I had been having failures when using generous amounts of lube, as I've described before. So I decided to see what would happen under the very same conditions, with much lighter lube. It started out with every intent to shoot about 200 rounds, but when I got there with no failures, I thought well, would it go 300? And I couldn't stop.

Sticks, the conclusion is the gun ran for 750 rounds with minimal lube without a failure, and I terminated the test as there seems to be no justification in even 750 rounds much less any more rounds. The gun is still in working order.

Just to be clear, so no one will get the impression this is "the way" so to speak, I will never run a gun that long without cleaning or lubing it. But I will be lubing more lightly than I used to to see if the problem I've been seeing goes away. It's kinda hard to explain, I would have bet the farm that more lube would work better than less lube.

I realized from the start that this test could damage the upper receiver and I was willing to sacrifice that to see what happens. Sooo, just don't want anyone to get the impression this is ok to do with an AR. I'll try to break the upper down today, but it's likely gonna be really hard to get meaningful pics - we'll see.

 

[G-man*]

Look forward to the pics. Hope you get to feeling better.

 

[Bad Bob]

Hey guys, didn't mean to be so slow replying, but I have been one sick little feller.

I went to Cracker Barrel Sunday for an early breakfast (I give the wife a break on Sunday mornings). As I ate, I noticed I was getting light headed, so I decided to pay and head for the car before things got worse. I got to the cashier and passed out. Some EMTs were coming in for breakfast and they were around me when I woke up. I asked them to help me up, they did and the next time I woke up they said I had passed out 3 times and an ambulance was on the way.

They loaded me up ran a multilead EKG, checked all the vitals including blood sugar - nothin'. I told them I was feeling better and walked out of the ambulance and waited for my wife to come and pick me up. I seemed to be pretty much back to normal. It turned out that I had taken some meds for a virus on an empty stomach and even though CB was only two miles away, the meds got in my bloodstream before the food could catch up and it bottomed out my blood pressure. But then Monday...

Came home wiped out. Went to my doctor the next day. He concluded this was the culmination of an ongoing infection that must have been working for a while. That was Tuesday - Today is the first time I've felt like doing anything. Thankfully, I am recovering now.

Bad Bod the test was intentionally kept at slow fire because that's how I shoot. I don't do mag dumps etc. and have no reason to. But I do a lot of slow fire type shooting as would be typical in hunting and sport shooting. I am concerned about damage - haven't looked at it yet because of well, what I described above. I did not address rapid, high volume rates of fire because it has little application to me.

I had been having failures when using generous amounts of lube, as I've described before. So I decided to see what would happen under the very same conditions, with much lighter lube. It started out with every intent to shoot about 200 rounds, but when I got there with no failures, I thought well, would it go 300? And I couldn't stop.

Sticks, the conclusion is the gun ran for 750 rounds with minimal lube without a failure, and I terminated the test as there seems to be no justification in even 750 rounds much less any more rounds. The gun is still in working order.

Just to be clear, so no one will get the impression this is "the way" so to speak, I will never run a gun that long without cleaning or lubing it. But I will be lubing more lightly than I used to to see if the problem I've been seeing goes away. It's kinda hard to explain, I would have bet the farm that more lube would work better than less lube.

I realized from the start that this test could damage the upper receiver and I was willing to sacrifice that to see what happens. Sooo, just don't want anyone to get the impression this is ok to do with an AR. I'll try to break the upper down today, but it's likely gonna be really hard to get meaningful pics - we'll see.

Thanks,

Wow, I hope you get feeling better! The research I did show FP-10 to be some pretty good lube, being cheap I will not be switching to it since my current lube is doing just fine. I run mine different doing more 3 gun style shooting un-suppressed.

 

[Tangle]

...Wow, I hope you get feeling better!

Thanks! I'm gettin' back to normal now.

...The research I did show FP-10 to be some pretty good lube, being cheap I will not be switching to it since my current lube is doing just fine. I run mine different doing more 3 gun style shooting un-suppressed.

LOL, being cheap can be a good thing.

 

[Tangle]

...I run mine different doing more 3 gun style shooting un-suppressed.

Ahhh, if you're into 3 gun, I bet you know Daniel Hornier. Years ago I met him and trained with him at DR Middlebrooks', Tactical Shooting Academy (TSA). Daniel was 14 years old then and already a shooting wonder. Fine kid!

I was there for pistol training. I have to say, TSA was quite a facility back then with all kinds of target scenarios from paper to steel. You couldn't ask for a better, funner, environment to train. And I'm sure it's better now than it was then.

 

[Sticks]

Glad to see you are doing better. In the before time when I was a daily poster here, I got a little anxious at your extended absences.

As far as your results - you are your own scientific blind test. You have thousands upon thousnads of rounds down range suppressed - through multiple barrels, and have verifiable results as to the lube, type, and quantity/application.

I give huge credit to the validity of your minimal lube testing. I would consider your shooting to be in the midrange for cyclic rate and conditions. Low end would be the bench target shooter that maybe puts 10 rounds down range an hour. The high end that puts your 750 down range in a 9 hour session at the range running drills and unconventional firing positions (rolling around in the dirt).

The only thing left to see is the wear on the components.

 

[Tangle]

Glad to see you are doing better. In the before time when I was a daily poster here, I got a little anxious at your extended absences.

As far as your results - you are your own scientific blind test. You have thousands upon thousnads of rounds down range suppressed - through multiple barrels, and have verifiable results as to the lube, type, and quantity/application.

I give huge credit to the validity of your minimal lube testing. I would consider your shooting to be in the midrange for cyclic rate and conditions. Low end would be the bench target shooter that maybe puts 10 rounds down range an hour. The high end that puts your 750 down range in a 9 hour session at the range running drills and unconventional firing positions (rolling around in the dirt).

The only thing left to see is the wear on the components.

Thanks Sticks, your kind words are much appreciated.

Took "as is" pics just moments ago. Next, I need to clean up everything and take more pics. I'll post the "as is" tomorrow. Got day and night classes tomorrow so don't have the opportunity (maybe).

From what I saw, everything looks pretty normal! We'll see how it all cleans up though.

 

[Sticks]

AND....?