[dcb188]

It is very interesting that what might be a passing look from someone can trigger these responses. Got to be more careful in the future

 

[Redxd]

Very true.

 

[dcb188]

I think of all the threads I have ever read, this one is the most surprising to me personally, because I certainly know there are evil people out there, and many would harm me if they could, and many more could harm me were it not for Mr Ruger.
But I am genuinely surprised to see so many people think that a look is enough in itself to trigger a defensive mental posture. This is something I did not know, did not know it was so common, I mean, this seeing a look as that potentially threatening. And to be so QUICK to see it, is my main point.


And my job requires me not to be naive, so I am not, in case there are those who think that upon reading my post here
But people "people watch" and you hear that expression, and when you walk into a bar or restaurant or mall or wherever, you naturally look at others and it is harmless in 95% of the cases. Better than to walk into a store and look down at the floor continuously. So we do not avert our eyes completely as some would have us believe here.
We do, in fact, look at other people, no matter what we say here. And sometimes they remind us of someone we know, and we might say to our wives, hey, that looks like ol' Jim, doesn't it? and she will peer a little bit more and say yeah kinda, and ol' Jim is gettin ready to draw now???

So, naivety is out of the question for me. I don't see the threat in someone looking, unless it is really off the wall and obviously challenging. But a lot on this forum see it where I think it doesn't exist. Are they quick to see it? Do they want to see it?

BikerRN said something that has stuck with me and I cannot remember his exact words but it was to the effect that a lot of people would draw and shoot way before they had to, if they thought they could do it legally, trying to do something to bad guys, or something like that. BikerRN knows what he wrote but it was very insightful of him.
So of all the threads I have ever read, this notion of seeing evil in a mere look, puzzles me more than anything else. Granted that a look of a certain kind will trigger that right away, but we are not talking about that kind of a look here, I don't think we are. I think we are talking about when someone looks at us and does not immediately look away like we want him to?

I don't think it was ever stated so that we were talking about openly challenging looks. Just looks in general is what most folks were talking about here. I want to be real clear that openly challenging looks are a whole different ballgame. But most people were talking about even a slightly longer than usual stare or look.

 

[Dusty Miller]

It sounds kinda odd, but take the soul out of your eyes when you look at someone and you will be supprised how un-welcoming you appear.

Tell me the technique.

 

[Cakewalk]

Tell me the technique.

I think what MitchellCT meant was hypothetical. Everyone has a soul, an essence that can not be duplicated. It gets very spiritual and somewhat religious when you contemplate it, but if that part of you, the part that that makes you who you are, your soul, was gone, you would be nothing more than a being with uncontrollable instincts, much like a wild animal. It's what differentiates us as humans from other species - our sense of self awareness.

Here's the thing - when someone reverts back to their instincts, and has no control of them, like in a murder or a rape or the like, less of their soul is present to the outside world, and that's why they're so dangerous.

I know that's a very deep and illogical response, but it's the best I can do to explain what I think he meant. MitchellCT, please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[TonyB]

I do the nice guy thing(mostly because I AM a nice guy)I acknowledge w/ a head bob and a "hey" and maybe a smile.
Funny thing....I was on a roll for a while where wherever we went(my wife and I)these characters that looked like they JUST got out of prison,would look at me,I'd say "hey" and they would act like we were cell mates"hey bro"that type of thing.One guy actually said"there he is..."like a long lost buddy.....what do you think that means..Idon't look like a con(I don't think)or a cop..just a fat white guy.
I told my Father this and he said it was because I looked like a "blues musician"???

 

[JudoJake]

I do personally respond to every look, whether it is aggressive or not(I'm not talking about a passing glance). But I don't think that just because somebody looks at me that they intend to do me harm. I mentioned that 99 percent of the people do not intend to do me harm.

In my opinion where you live dose make a difference. When I was in New York, you could stand right in front of people and look them in the eye and they wouldn't even notice you. However the door men sure noticed a 6'2" long haired, bearded guy(I work undercover). But again, my eye contact and smile came in handy. In fact I have to use more charm and eye contact now that I look like a dirt bag to overcome peoples negative thoughts about me. So by making eye contact I am bettering every situation I am in and not making it worse.

I don't think that it is the same for women as it is for men. You are not sending the same message. You could very easily be sending the message that you are flirting. Just like when I look a women in the eye and start taking.

But I do believe that men instantly size each other up and figure out where they are on the pecking order. I don't see anything wrong with letting people know that you are "switched on." Isn't this just away of being in condition yellow?

 

[limatunes]

I don't think that it is the same for women as it is for men. You are not sending the same message. You could very easily be sending the message that you are flirting. Just like when I look a women in the eye and start taking.

Then my question would be, "What is the SOP for women?"

I've often wondered this because I've often found myself uncomfortably stared at.

It's all well and good for a man to be able to size up another man and give a good nod or acknowledging smile in another person's direction to let them know, "Hey, I see you. I see you seeing me. Ball's in your court."

But for a woman, it's already been established that those rules don't apply. A glance and friendly smile might as well be saying, "Come over here and ask me for my phone number, or at least what I'm doing this Friday night."

So, does a woman "sheepishly" keep her gaze averted while slyly trying to keep her "eye" on the starer? Does she acknowledge the gaze and potentially open the floor gates and attempt to deflect the tidal wave to a "safe" direction?

But, I agree, that then looks like the woman is a wimp or scared (an opinion often placed on women already without the help of them looking away when being "eye-balled")

I'm also apprehensive about taking the approach that MitchelleCT suggested because that could, indeed, escalate the situation in the other direction. Suddenly the woman is approached and instead of asking her dinner plans she gets hit up with, "Hey, do you have a problem with me?"

And there is really no good answer to that question. Saying, "Yes," plus any explanation can further escalate the situation. Saying, "No," can invite the starer to start another conversation.

I'm not sure that's the wisest plan of action.

I think it could be best if women acknowledge the gaze with absolutely no emotion whatsoever. A direct look, straight into the eyes, a blank stare for a second and look away followed by no repeat glances (because everyone knows that multiple glances means interest no matter what emotion is on your face. Heck, you learn that in grade school).

Non-verbal communication can be a very tricky thing for a woman, because a lot can be said unintentionally. Even if a gal just wants to look nice for a night out with the girls an overzealous man (or boy) can think she dressed up because she wants to be picked up. Suddenly she's getting cat calls that are as flattering as they are frustrating.

Even a girl pursuing an interest that is not "usual" for a girl can get her in awkward situations. Being the only girl at a gun show, or at the local drag races, at the shooting range, in an auto body shop, at Gold's Gym... the requests for phone numbers gets tedious.

A girl has to be careful how she responds. Guys can be funny about rejection.

 

[JudoJake]

I am assuming that the "what are you staring at" remark is a situation between two guys? First of all, although I use this technique a lot, I have never gotten this response. I don't know why or if another guy would have the same results. But I do know that, for me, I would rather get this type of response then let some jerk intimidate me. I am very sarcastic, I would say some thing like, "The door." Or "Your jacket, where did you buy it at?" Again, smiling and making eye contact. Or you might say, "Nothing, I was just thinking to myself." It doesn't matter what you say, because your non verbal communication is still saying, I noticed you, I'm a nice guy, I'm not scared of you.

I am not a woman. Yet. :danceban: But here is a suggestion. What I would do is look around to let them know that you are paying attention, and make super brief eye contact as your vision passes him. Then he knows that, you noticed him and that you were not interested enough to stop and look. If he is trying to flirt then you communicated, not interested. If he is thinking about raping you, you communicated, I'm paying attention and I am not your type of customer. If he still insists on looking at you, then he is a ### and needs to be dealt with. One option is to let your husband have a "non verbal conversation" with him.

Here is another option:
I do a lot of interviews and interrogations. When a suspect tells me something that I don't like, or lies to me, I don't always call him a lier. A lot of times I just look at him differently. My eye's narrow(very slightly), I frown, and even make a slight no head movement from side to side. Keep in mind there all of these actions are very slight and brief, but the suspect picks up on it very quickly. He instantly know that, I don't believe you, and I don't like what you just said, did, or are doing. It is not even the conscious mind that is picking up on this. It is his subconscious. Every other time he has seen somebody make that face it signaled that he was doing something wrong, so when you do it, he will get the message, without you having to be to animated. If he thought you were flirting before, he knows now that you are not. Just an idea? The next time a guy hits on me I will try it out. :gah:

 

[Bark'n]

+1 JudoJake on your original and subsequent posts... I get the picture.

Also nothing is set in stone...

I'm definitely not giving off the vibe that I'm stepping in anyones face... only that I'm paying attention to what's going on around me and hey... I noticed him too.

No fires to put out, no turf wars, just paying attention to, and taking in the sights.

I'm also signaling at the same time, that if a situation does pop up that should demand my undivided attention, I'm not gonna be oblivious to it either.

If someone does get bent out of shape simply because I acknowledge, in a friendly way, that I noticed he was "eyeballing me", then I know I need to be a notch up on my awareness. The ball is still in his court, but now he knows he isn't gonna be dealing with me as a :sheep:

(btw... if someone does get bent out of shape just because I noticed them looking at them; then by definition, I was correct in scrutinizing them in the first place!)

Someone mentioned in an earlier post that "Situation Management goes along with Situational Awareness" or words to that effect. Very true on that! :hand10:

 

[crankshop1000]

Eyeballing someone may just be as simple as someone thinking they recognize the person or think they know them from somewhere. Locking eyes is something a bit different.Nature is full of animals that view direct eye contact as an act of aggression or a challenge. Best to avoid direct eye contact with strangers, but scan and remain aware of whats what.

 

[dcb188]

I think it is much different with women when they are being looked at, like, wow, come with me, that look. So that is an entirely different situation where almost any eye contact back to the guy means, to him ONLY, wow, she is in love with me So in women's situations, where guys are seeing what is out there and available, completely different story.
I got the impression, and I still have it, that SOME, not most or all, but some here are tuned to the slightest look, which is overdoing it ,in my book. Because that is almost an invitation for the other guy to become aggressive when all he was doing was looking around in the first place. So I think it not only can backfire but does in a some cases.

 

[cdwolf]

It happens to me all the time!! Guys just want to start trouble ....:nono:
when they catch their wife looking:yllove:


:rofl::rofl: :haha:

 

[dcb188]

Good response!!!!!

cdwolf, I can see where YOU do need to be more careful than most

 

[DrLewall]

Kids these days have a thing for being "disd"..and in some circles, that could mean your life! One has to be careful not to "dis" a person by an innocent stare.

Lima, as for passing out phone numbers, memorize your local police or sherrif dept phone numbers and pass those out

 

[Bark'n]

I just can't understand how any man can make the leap to assume that a woman is flirting with him and giving him an invitation to pursue her simply because she may look him directly into the eyes for all of 1.5 - 2 seconds.

That's about all it takes let someone know that you SEE them. That's it.

For a man to get a 1 second eye contact like that and think they are such a stud that she is obviously inviting him to some personal interaction is bordering on predatory behavior.

Now if the woman winks at him or purses her lips, licks her lips, or tucks her head down and slowly leers at him over the top of her sunglasses, then yes... she's probably sending an invitation. And she's probably making eye contact that is much longer in duration than what is needed to let a Bad Guy who is sizing up the sheep know that he's been spotted.

I could be mistaken but I thought the original poster was referring to situations when you see that someone is actually "eyeballing" you. Observing you with some kind of scrutiny and focused on you. Maybe he's trying to decide if you are a victim or maybe he's daydreaming.

Predators tend to study their prey. From his perspective, just because a woman looks around doesn't mean she is actually seeing the danger that he presents. Once you lock eyes with him, if only for 1 or 2 seconds, he knows you see him and you now know he's there watching you. That is probably all it is going to take for him to move on to some other potential prey and leave you alone. For you to notice him at all means his cover is blown. Why pick someone who sees him (who can potentially cause him problems) over someone who is totally oblivious to what is going on?

I don't know... Am I missing something here?

 

[dcb188]

I think you are right. If a guy appears to be looking for prey or studying someone that way, then sure, some action has to be taken in the way of letting him know that he should really move on.
You know that he is there, is the message you are giving him.
I was talking about where the guy is just harmlessly looking around the way we all do. We say we avoid eye contact but we really don't do that at all except after we have looked around. The other guy may look over at us and decide that WE are the ones sizing HIM up, so it gets a little unnecessarily combative, is what I am saying, when people are just looking around. Their alternative is to stare at their shoes like a little kid does.
Just someone looking at us does not mean we should start taking protective measures. I don't think everyone is our potential enemy. I think that the numbers of bad guys walking the streets are higher than ever before in United States history, but I still don't see just a look as all that meaningful. Some did, and that was why I was surprised, that it would take that little of a thing to trigger this big defensive sweep mechanism out of proportion to someone looking around.


Not everyone is a bad guy because they are looking at you or around the store or wherever. There are enough real bad guys out there without us thinking that every stranger poses this huge threat. I think it is out of proportion to reality, to think that way. Like we walk into a store thinking okay, that guy over there is looking at me. Got to go into higher level of defensive thinking. He may be looking, wondering if he knows you or you remind him of someone. And what are you doing looking at HIM? You now have him wondering what is going on til both are ready to step out in the street? I just thought that the reaction to mere looking is out of proportion, and I think I am right, with a lot of folks.


A one sentence summary is this: That we are way too quick to see someone looking at us as a real threat of some kind when all he may be doing is just looking around same as we were just doing.

 

[Cakewalk]

A one sentence summary is this: That we are way too quick to see someone looking at us as a real threat of some kind when all he may be doing is just looking around same as we were just doing.

There's that fine line between caution and paranoia once again....

 

[cdwolf]

I'm sure most of us have the "I'm not a victim look" and most guys look eye to eye! When I walk in a room I size up everyone in there and try to make eye contact if their looking!
I don't trust someone that won't look me in the eye!

My sister asks me " why do you look so mean all the time" at the time we were out of town, wrong side of the neighborhood walking through a Ryan's trying to get a seat! I was not in a real playful mood but I was more into sizing up my situation. I have had stare downs with other CCW:rofl: This guy kept scanning the room and our eyes met on 3 or 4 looks until I saw him adjust his gun:rofl: He still had the OMG I have a gun look.


We walk, talk and carry ourselves in a less :sheep:ish way!!

 

[dcb188]

I guess it's different in different places where we go etc all depends who is there and it varies a lot. Always pays to know who is around, though, that is for sure.