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Another issue for the masses: Are you qualified on every gun you carry? That is, do you have some documentation that proves that you have passed some sort of shooting qualification for each model that you carry? Do you feel uncomfortable carrying a gun without some proof of competence, even though you have practiced and are comfortable shooting it? Does anyone think this is important for legal reasons?

Thanks.

SSKC
 

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It's Interesting

In Pennsylvania there are no qualifications necessary for any handgun that is carried. We can carry any handgun that we can affford to buy. There is no written documentation and absolutely no range, written, or oral testing required as part of obtaining a License To Carry Concealed.
 

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In Texas about the closest thing we have to something like this is we have licenses split into SA licenses and NSA licenses.

SA - semiautomatic
NSA - non semiautomatic

Now get this logic. If you qualify with any semiautomatic pistol of an appropriate sized caliber, you can carry anything that's legal for you to posess basically.

However if you qualify with a non semiautomatic pistol you may not carry a semiautomatic pistol.

It makes me want to go qualify with a single action revolver or a falling block design pistol. What kind of license do I receive then? What if I used my black powder gun? What kind of license is that?

It's silliness in one of its myriad forms. Look I believe it's my responsibility to learn my manuals of arms for anything I own, but gosh darn it you have to let people figure it out for themselves sometimes.

I took my driver's license test with a car, but now I drive a pickup truck. My financial situation improved and I found a vehicle more to my tastes. Sure it's different from driving a car but I still drive it every day and I haven't caused an accident yet.

Now do I agree with the sentiment you should be capable of qualifying with every gun you might carry? Yes. I could do it even with my hard to shoot sometimes 642. Can I see how it might be useful to show in court you have competence? Yes.

Now this here is the one thing about the Texas CCW program I like. Your training/proof of competency form says either you fired a semiautomatic or a non semiautomatic and it says you either passed or failed. That's as clear as it needs to be in a courtroom.

It just amuses me though that I could have fired .357 or my snubnose when I took the test and it would have demonstrated more skill to qualify that way than it did with my P89, yet if I had taken the test with one of my revolvers the state would essentially have me classified as not competent to carry any semiautomatic pistol.

Explain that! You can't! It's madness!

What fuels this idea? That a semiautomatic is more complicated? Is there really a functional difference between a DAO or decock only semiautomatic and a revolver? They're both pull trigger go bang no safety to get in the way affairs.

I hate the whole idea to be honest with you. You should be able to take means to protect yourself because you're a rational human being not because you pass some state mandated test. But given the current sociopolitical climate I can see why it would be a concern.
 

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in Clark Cty NV you can only carry that with which you have qualified so yes I am qual'd to carry everything I chose to carry. I made it a point to qual with every 1911 platform pistol I own.

~A
 

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I have an military Expert Marksmanship Badge, if that counts. We are not required to "qualify" on any particular design, or worse, a particular gun in Arizona. I have no "official" qualification nor do I feel I need the State to declare me "qualified". :rolleyes:
 

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No qualification requirements here.

I don't believe there should be any more requirements to carry a firearm than to operate a printing press - these are constitutionally guaranteed rights, and any regulation as far as restrictions go only serve to limit the ability of the people to exercise said rights.
 

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Being a fellow Texan, Euclidean brings up valid points. The instructors here look to see if you can demonstrate some degree of familiarity and safety in handling the firearm you bring to qualify with and can at least be consistent in hitting a fairly good-sized target...frankly I don't believe it should matter what type firearm you choose to carry.....anybody out there carry a "flintlock" ?
 

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Prospector said:
I don't believe it should matter what type firearm you choose to carry.....anybody out there carry a "flintlock" ?
Yup! Except mine is a bit longer.
 

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I qualified Distinguished Expert with the Department issued Glock 19. I will never carry one off duty, either. My CZ75 PO1 is more comfortable and accurate than the Grock, and I like the short DA of the decocked hammer far better than the "safe action" Grock trigger, (nope, that wasn't a mispselling).
I don't have to "qualify" with an off duty gun, unlike some Departments do, nor am I restricted to what I may carry, which is very good.
I don't believe in qualification to carry, because that is yet another restriction on our guarenteed rights, acknowledged by the Constitution. That gives the goverment, whether local, state or Fed, the ability to deny your rigths by saying you didn't "qualify". How high do you think someone like UpChuckie Schumer or Diane Feinslime would make the bar? Perfect score at 50 yards, one handed? 5 shots in 5 seconds, with a single shot pistol?
No, on the other hand, more training is better, ad looks better in court on a good, justifiable shoot. I have several certificates and such, and I wholeheartedly support people getting all the training they can afford, (some of this is expensive!), including just shooting IDPA when available! Everything helps!
 

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Our permit is the 2nd What the state hands out just makes them money and is a form of gun control. Ky doesn't care what we carry just that we have the card. (shows we paid our bribe )
 

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PA here - so no pieces of paper per gun! I have always however made it priority to have put any and every gun used for carry thru firstly - extensive reliability tests - followed by speed shooting and work from the leather. Some of this is increased thru IDPA as well.

Regardless of our right via the 2nd - I do feel everyone should make a point of familiarization with their carry platform - such that they have competence, fluidity, and skill.

The one thing that does give me cause for concern, is the individual who decides to carry - gets permit and buys a gun - only to then carry said piece never even having fired it!!! :rolleyes: :eek: Those folks do exist - and I think they are foolish both to themselves and others.
 

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P95, I certainly agree with your sentiment you should at least fire any gun you want to carry. But I will play the devil's advocate here.

My mother has fairly bad arthritis. It's physically painful for her to fire a handgun, especially one with any kind of recoil. Now truthfully she is physically capable of doing it, but it hurts. She could probably fire 6 or 7 rounds in succession though without it hurting too bad. After that she'd have to stop and her hands would hurt for an hour.

Furthermore she can't load a catridge into a magazine. She can push the cylinder release on a good revolver forward however. It also helps tremendously if the gun has an easy to manipulate hammer so it can be cocked into single action mode. I have plans to get her a Model 10 and have a gunsmith do a trigger job on it so the trigger will be smooth as possible.

Should she be subjected to a state mandated torture test of having to fire 50 rounds in rapid succession?

I'm an able bodied 23 year old male with no real health problems. It's reasonable to expect me to be able to deliver such a performance. My mother could not do it. It would hurt too much.

It depresses me to think she can't get a permit.

You have to let everyone have a basic right like this and people just need to figure it out for themselves.
 

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definition of "qualified"?

If "qualified" means my score record witnessed and signed by someone else, then my answer is "no".

There is no legal qualification requirement here--Colorado--for the CWP. One must have passed a firearm safety class including a legal briefing, but qualifying with any pistol is an option of the instructor. I qualified in the course with a Colt 1911A1 owned by the instructor, scoring 299 out of 300; this included blasting a silhouette target at 7, 15, and 25 feet.

I carry either of 2 Glock 21s, and I frequently shoot a "qualification" perfect score at 25 feet with both of them. I have my own records of this, if it ever becomes an issue. Of course these records could be challenged as fake on cross-examination.
 

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Euc - good point and my statement was thusly rather too sweeping. Far be it for me to wish anyone disadvantaged and defenceless.

In your mother's case and similar let me qualify my previous thoughts - I would not wish in any way for them to have to suffer a mandated full training - but would want that they be ''schooled'' by someone - in this case yourself. Exceptions need made but nonetheless, there is still a base level of competence needed I think.

This would mean they could be totally familiar with the firearm's mechanics - essential still IMO - following which just enough live fire to know what to expect and be competent, without suffering!!

Don't get me wrong - I would want your dear mother to be able to carry, that's a given - just hope that she can be brought up to a standard that in fact has HER feeling ''in charge'' - not having misgivings or worries that might decrease her chances were it ever needed. If you get my drift!
 

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Qualifications?

SSKC said:
Another issue for the masses: Are you qualified on every gun you carry? That is, do you have some documentation that proves that you have passed some sort of shooting qualification for each model that you carry? Do you feel uncomfortable carrying a gun without some proof of competence, even though you have practiced and are comfortable shooting it? Does anyone think this is important for legal reasons?

Thanks.

SSKC
Okay, I qualified "EXPERT" in every weapons platform in the inventory of the Infantry, so can I carry a LAW or a 90mm RR? How about an M249 SAW or an M60? I LIKE that reasoning! Similarly, I also qualified expert on the M1A1 tanks weapons systems including the main gun. Can I have my order taken over at AM General?

A loooong time ago in a far away galaxy, I was an OIC of a post pistol team we used the 45 in interservice competitions. Now, I'm also an NRA certified Firearms Instructor. I can clear any police qualification test with any and all firearms that I own, except my NAA mini .22 and I could do THAT if I could touch my target! LOL

I'm marginally better with my semiautos but I can still "get the job done" with any revolver.
 

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I didn't think you meant it like that P95, I was just picking on you.

We forget sometimes there are elderly people in this country who are marked for crime and who are in such a physical shape they can't handle the recoil of a 9mm cartridge. There's an awful lot of people who carry .22 LR for self defense because it's simply the best they can hope to do.

My underlying philosophy is that CCW permits are a stepping stone to get this country back on track. If I can live in a nation where everyone and their dog can carry and use a cell phone competently and everyone can drive more or less competently, I can live in one where everyone can rattle off the Four Rules and hit a man sized target at 7 yards.

On a related note, I wonder if it would change my choice of firing platform if I had to qualify with the exact gun I carried. I dare say I'd purchase two exact copies of my carry guns or else I'd have to move to something that could easily be repaired/worked on locally.
 

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Virginia CCW requires completion of an approved handgun safety course, and most in the area include a practical, but there is no official requirement to qualify with each handgun you intend to carry, and the license to carry doesn't mention your weapon(s).

Official documentation of qualification isn't about safety; it is about barriers to entry, establishing a de facto legal standard that further limits who can carry what. It's about building an industry around the qualification process, the troll under the bridge taking money from travellers so they might pass. It's about gun control.

Should I be competent with everything I carry? Absolutely. That is my responsibility, though, not the State's. It seems to me that in court, we should try to maintain the assumption of the right to carry, that the question is not whether one is qualified with a particular firearm, but whether lethal force is justified in a particular circumstance; otherwise, I can see a possibility where the question of whether or not a lethal response was justified becomes secondary to one's qualification score.

Of course, I am speaking from the perspective of a private citizen. Certification and qualification serves a different and necessary purpose in the professional arena.
 

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P95Carry said:
PA here - so no pieces of paper per gun!
Back before "shall issue" PA required that your carry gun be listed on the permit. :saevilw:
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Qualification

I think we (members of this forum) hold ourselves to a standard that is higher than any mandated by whatever state we may live in. We are not satisfied with merely filling the squares, rather, we practice regularly, read, and seek training when we are able.

I didn't state my original question as clearly as I should have. What I meant to ask was: do you feel any need to have something "on paper" that you could use to show competence to Mr. and Ms. Juror, should you be so unfortunate as to have to defend yourself and subsequently end up in court? Said documentation could be government issued, or could be from a well-known school or your local NRA instructor or range operator. If you feel it is good to have some sort of certification, do you do so for each individual type of gun you elect to carry?

Thanks for all the input so far!

SSKC
 
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