Defensive Carry banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
141 - 160 of 178 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,974 Posts
Havok, in an effort to understand why you feel as you do, do you have children, and what age are they? Feel free not to answer, but I'm asking in all sincerity.
I do not.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Snub44

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,309 Posts
The anti arguments being made in this thread are the same ones that every gun control supporter uses. It is even more clear now why we are losing our rights.
The tactics for seducing children by child molesters are commonly the same ones used by adults for seducing each other. The context of the tactic or argument is more important than the tactic or argument itself in this case.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,974 Posts
The tactics for seducing children by child molesters are commonly the same ones used by adults for seducing each other. The context of the tactic or argument is more important than the tactic or argument itself in this case.
Not really sure how that relates.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,210 Posts
No. Makes as much sense to me as giving the right to vote to 16 year olds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
275 Posts
The anti arguments being made in this thread are the same ones that every gun control supporter uses. It is even more clear now why we are losing our rights.
Your argument here is certainly specious. What world have you seen a majority of people advocate for high school students to carry within a school? Seems you are alone in your feelings on this or at least close to being alone. I don't believe we are losing our rights over saying we do not believe teens can be trusted to carry in a school.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,974 Posts
Your argument here is certainly specious. What world have you seen a majority of people advocate for high school students to carry within a school? Seems you are alone in your feelings on this or at least close to being alone. I don't believe we are losing our rights over saying we do not believe teens can be trusted to carry in a school.
Where did I say the majority of people have advocated for it? 18 year olds are adults and 2A was written with them in mind. We lose our rights as soon as we let our emotions decide that we are better off trading in our rights for perceived safety, which in this case is denying the rights of adults to own and carry firearms. Never saw anything in the constitution where it said “unless they still go to school”.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
33,899 Posts
The anti arguments being made in this thread are the same ones that every gun control supporter uses. It is even more clear now why we are losing our rights.
I haven't followed this thread due to its predictability, but you hit the nail right on the head.

If I could send one item back in time to one person, it would be one of my guns to Kendrick Castillo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,390 Posts
Where did I say the majority of people have advocated for it? 18 year olds are adults and 2A was written with them in mind. We lose our rights as soon as we let our emotions decide that we are better off trading in our rights for perceived safety, which in this case is denying the rights of adults to own and carry firearms. Never saw anything in the constitution where it said “unless they still go to school”.
You're doing again with this post just what you've done all through the thread...you're arguing that 18 year olds are adults. The OP's question pertained NOT to those 18, but to those "16 to 18 year" olds. 18 year olds ARE considered by most authorities to be adults...but those from 16 to 18 are still CHILDREN in the eyes of most authorities...hence we don't put such responsibilities as armed defense of a public school on them.

As for the argument that 18 year olds can be soldiers and carry guns for this country...great...sure they can...but NOT while they're still in high school...they have to leave high school(world of children) and enter the ADULT world to do so.

The OP's question was " would you fundamentally support the ability of selected upperclassmen (Jr and Sr / 16 to 18) to carry a defensive firearm at school to engage and stop active shooters?" That's what most of us have answered NO to. There are few CHILDREN mature enough to handle such responsibility well...that's why it's the ADULTS' responsibility to keep kids safe...until they reach 18 and step off into the adult world.

This thread wasn't about rights or keeping anyone's rights from them...it was about giving CHILDREN responsibilities that ADULTS should be handling.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,390 Posts
I haven't followed this thread due to its predictability, but you hit the nail right on the head.

If I could send one item back in time to one person, it would be one of my guns to Kendrick Castillo.
That Kendrick was a hero, no doubt. That he'd turned 18, no doubt. He was at the highest section of the OP's "16 to 18" year old range of age considered.

The question that the OP asked was "... would you fundamentally support the ability of selected upperclassmen (Jr and Sr / 16 to 18) to carry a defensive firearm at school to engage and stop active shooters?"

That's not about rights or 2a/anti-2A, that's about giving children in school adult responsibilities...involving life and death...the answer from most of us is NO.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
33,899 Posts
That Kendrick was a hero, no doubt. That he'd turned 18, no doubt. He was at the highest section of the OP's "16 to 18" year old range of age considered.

The question that the OP asked was "... would you fundamentally support the ability of selected upperclassmen (Jr and Sr / 16 to 18) to carry a defensive firearm at school to engage and stop active shooters?"

That's not about rights or 2a/anti-2A, that's about giving children in school adult responsibilities...involving life and death...the answer from most of us is NO.
How is protecting/defending oneself and those nearby an adult responsibility?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,974 Posts
You're doing again with this post just what you've done all through the thread...you're arguing that 18 year olds are adults. The OP's question pertained NOT to those 18, but to those "16 to 18 year" olds. 18 year olds ARE considered by most authorities to be adults...but those from 16 to 18 are still CHILDREN in the eyes of most authorities...hence we don't put such responsibilities as armed defense of a public school on them.

As for the argument that 18 year olds can be soldiers and carry guns for this country...great...sure they can...but NOT while they're still in high school...they have to leave high school(world of children) and enter the ADULT world to do so.

The OP's question was " would you fundamentally support the ability of selected upperclassmen (Jr and Sr / 16 to 18) to carry a defensive firearm at school to engage and stop active shooters?" That's what most of us have answered NO to. There are few CHILDREN mature enough to handle such responsibility well...that's why it's the ADULTS' responsibility to keep kids safe...until they reach 18 and step off into the adult world.

This thread wasn't about rights or keeping anyone's rights from them...it was about giving CHILDREN responsibilities that ADULTS should be handling.
The OP asked about 16-18 year olds, not 16-17 year olds. So 18 year olds were factored into my response.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,390 Posts
Because we protect our children, and give them a safe environment in which to grow and learn to make decisions. The FACT that some can handle protecting/defending themselves and family/friends, does not mean we assign them that responsibility and arm them to do that in the public schools. My boys were well trained in the laws of deadly force and well trained to shoot a pistol by 12. Would you like to have seen them show up armed at your childrens' school at 12...or 16...or 18...telling the teachers and students..."I'll handle this" ???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,390 Posts
The OP asked about 16-18 year olds, not 16-17 year olds. So 18 year olds were factored into my response.
But those who have attained their 18th birthday are not the same as those between their 16th and 18th birthdays...which the OP's question, and our answers, pertained to.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
33,899 Posts
Because we protect our children, and give them a safe environment in which to grow and learn to make decisions. The FACT that some can handle protecting/defending themselves and family/friends, does not mean we assign them that responsibility and arm them to do that in the public schools. My boys were well trained in the laws of deadly force and well trained to shoot a pistol by 12. Would you like to have seen them show up armed at your childrens' school at 12...or 16...or 18...telling the teachers and students..."I'll handle this" ???
I haven't seen anyone advocating for 12 or 16. I certainly haven't.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Havok

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,390 Posts
But you asked "How is protecting/defending oneself and those nearby an adult responsibility? " The OP's question is about children 16-18 years old....or any age(12 or 16).

The same argument could be used to ask why a boy in that age group, having plowed and harvested his dad's crops, couldn't drive the school bus...or why the candy striper couldn't be the school nurse, since she'd saved a heart attack victim and delivered a baby.

The deciding factor isn't what they have a RIGHT to do, or what they KNOW HOW to do...it's that, as students in high school, are not ready for those responsibilities/decisions to be on them. Those things are to be done FOR them, till they graduate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,974 Posts
But those who have attained their 18th birthday are not the same as those between their 16th and 18th birthdays...which the OP's question, and our answers, pertained to.
It does not say under 18. It says juniors and seniors, 16-18. An 18 year old senior in high school fits into the OPs question. Nowhere does it say under 18 years of age, or any mention of being only about children.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,390 Posts
It does not say under 18. It says juniors and seniors, 16-18. An 18 year old senior in high school fits into the OPs question. Nowhere does it say under 18 years of age, or any mention of being only about children.
Now, you're arguing the English language. There is 18, and then there is a group (juniors and seniors BETWEEN 16 and 18)...another way to say the same thing is between their sixteenth birthday and the day before their 18th birthday. That's what it means. That's different from those who are 18.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,906 Posts
Discussion Starter #158
Would you like to have seen them show up armed at your childrens' school at 12...or 16...or 18...telling the teachers and students..."I'll handle this" ???
If they were able to save lives and stop an attack- then absolutely YES!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,974 Posts
The deciding factor isn't what they have a RIGHT to do, or what they KNOW HOW to do...it's that, as students in high school, are not ready for those responsibilities/decisions to be on them. Those things are to be done FOR them, till they graduate.
And that is how the term “common sense gun legislation” was born. People will argue that even though you have the right to carry a gun, that doesn’t mean you should be able to. You’re willing to get that ball rolling for them. I’m not.


How does that quote go? Those who would trade freedom for safety deserve neither and will likely lose both, or something like that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,906 Posts
Discussion Starter #160
It does not say under 18. It says juniors and seniors, 16-18. An 18 year old senior in high school fits into the OPs question. Nowhere does it say under 18 years of age, or any mention of being only about children.
Right- I am talking about the age range for "most" Jr's and Sr's, not specifically under or over 18.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Snub44
141 - 160 of 178 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top