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Fast-forward to today, and we see the widespread and decidedly un-American reaction to the tragedies of El Paso and Dayton. Both mass murders were animated by hatred and planned by madness. But because both were carried out using weapons that look like those issued by the military, Democrats have called for the outright confiscation of these weapons.

Where is the constitutional authority for that? In a word: nowhere.

The government's job is to preserve personal liberty. Does it do its job when it weakens personal liberty instead? Stated differently, how does confiscating weapons from the law-abiding conceivably reduce the ability of madmen to get those weapons? When did madmen begin obeying gun laws?

These arguments against confiscation have largely resonated with Republicans. Yet – because they feel they must do something – they have fallen for the concept of limited confiscation, known by the euphemism of “red flag” laws.

The concept of a “red flag” law – which permits the confiscation of lawfully owned weapons from a person because of what the person might do – violates both the presumption of innocence and the due process requirement of proof of criminal behavior before liberty can be infringed.
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/judge-andrew-napolitano-the-dangerous-urge-to-do-something

We've been having debates in at least two threads regarding ERPOs and @Havok has been adamant regarding the lack of due process. Judge Napolitano agrees. There needs to be a constitutional challenge to these "Red Flag" laws. Is anyone aware of such challenges?
 

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I read that this morning. After some of the things Judge N. has said recently, my reaction was "even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then".
 

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I haven’t heard of any challenges. It needs to happen though.
 
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It will take time before a case starts winding through the Courts. After some ERPOs are issued, probably a few years in the lower courts after the gun organizations pick the most promising cases with the best facts, then more years as the appeals system is tortured, and then getting consensus at the Circuit Court of Appeals level or conflicts which might allow certiorari at the SCOTUS.

In the meantime, many more ERPOs will be issued, many gun owners will be violated, and many of us will have shuffled off this mortal coil.
 

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Maybe he's thinking of the members here that support red flag laws? There are a few as crazy as it seems.
I've not seen any member post support for red flag laws, you have? Please share that link and post number,

thanks

ETA, posted days ago it's only a matter of time before red flag laws are challenged in the courts relative constitutionality
 

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Maybe he's thinking of the members here that support red flag laws? There are a few as crazy as it seems.
Plus one on Brownie's request.
 

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You should understand the is no Unconstitutional or Constitutional anymore . It is what 5 of nine say it is. And they now decide based not on law but how they feel about any issue.
What you must remember about red flag laws is how they will be used. First case. DHS head " The veterans are the most dangerous thing to America.
Number two a big one and she is still in power.

Dianne Feinstein:
"All vets are mentally ill in some way and government should prevent them from owning firearms."

No one on the left has ever called her out on this and they signal full agreement.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Where has anyone here in any of those threads not been adamant in decrying the lack of due process?
Maybe he's thinking of the members here that support red flag laws? There are a few as crazy as it seems.
I've not seen any member post support for red flag laws, you have? Please share that link and post number,

thanks

ETA, posted days ago it's only a matter of time before red flag laws are challenged in the courts relative constitutionality
Plus one on Brownie's request.
I think OneGun got mixed up as to who sends the Christmas cards around here. :biggrin2:

My bad! My typing and my thoughts did not connect properly. I was in St. Thomas and drinking heavily on the beach when I wrote this thread. (I was not the designated driver that day and I was trying to observe the FBI raiding Epstein's island). I was thinking about the people, such as Mr. Willis, that went to guns when the police showed up to execute an ERPO. ERPOs are ripe for abuse because they assume guilt until proven innocent. But, I would never go to guns when a police officer showed up for the simple reason they are doing their job enforcing a really bad law. There is no reason for any loss of life. In the other two threads, we discussed how Mr. Willis died during the execution of an ERPO quite a bit here.

I'm back in Texas and quite sober now.

P.S. Someone actually send Christmas cards here??
 

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I've not seen any member post support for red flag laws, you have? Please share that link and post number,

thanks

ETA, posted days ago it's only a matter of time before red flag laws are challenged in the courts relative constitutionality
Yes there have been a few. No idea what thread they were in I don't remember.
 

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https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/judge-andrew-napolitano-the-dangerous-urge-to-do-something

We've been having debates in at least two threads regarding ERPOs and @Havok has been adamant regarding the lack of due process. Judge Napolitano agrees. There needs to be a constitutional challenge to these "Red Flag" laws. Is anyone aware of such challenges?
I agree with the JUDGE N! With over 35 years of L.E. we were never allowed to arrest based on "what might happen" ..... organized crime required at minimum an act that was more than mere preparations; family violence required evidence of the act; robbery, murder, sexual assault, etc. all required an act......red flags laws that I have seen do not require any of these acts or requirements.....it is the word of the person without any proof of an act or assault. It is a bunch of B.S. as you can never, never, never stop crime due to the evil soul of many people....they dont care about the laws and the only people hurt are the law abiding citizens who have to wait and wait and pray and pray that L.E. will get there in time to help and save them from the evil doers!
 

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You should understand the is no Unconstitutional or Constitutional anymore . It is what 5 of nine say it is. And they now decide based not on law but how they feel about any issue.
What you must remember about red flag laws is how they will be used. First case. DHS head " The veterans are the most dangerous thing to America.
Number two a big one and she is still in power.

Dianne Feinstein:
"All vets are mentally ill in some way and government should prevent them from owning firearms."


No one on the left has ever called her out on this and they signal full agreement.
Did Feinstein actually say that, or is that one of those unsupported "Internet Quotes"?
She's said some crazy s---, but I've never heard that one.
Would love to know the "when and where" of that quote, if she did in fact say it.
Thanks.
 

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I really hope Fiendstein didn't say that. Regardless, yes, red flag laws are unconstitutional in their lack of due process.
 

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As much as I dislike Feinstein, she did not say that. It's an urban myth.
 

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Did Feinstein actually say that, or is that one of those unsupported "Internet Quotes"?
She's said some crazy s---, but I've never heard that one.
Would love to know the "when and where" of that quote, if she did in fact say it.
Thanks.
She said that loud and clear and more than once on national news along withe the statements of the DHS. And she is no the only one to make that claim.
 
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